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Nickname:
JohnF
Posts: 1718
Member Since: 8/14/99
Posted: 12/7/2008 5:53pm
Views: 1566
Replies: 6
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Offside Scenario
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Here is another one my referee assignor told me about. It also shows that referees talking about situations is very useful, as there had been a recent USSF decision on this matter and I would have called it wrong. As usual, I'll post the answer later. The situation is:
Team A is awarded a free kick within striking distance of Team B's goal. A1 asks for 10 yards, and the CR goes through the correct procedures for a ceremonial free kick.
After the CR moves Team B's wall back to the proper location, Team A lines up several attackers even with Team B's wall. There are no other players from Team B between the wall and Team B's goalline, other than the goalkeeper.
The CR whistles for play to restart, and A1 begins his run toward the ball. At that point Coach B begins shouting to his players in the wall to pull up.
The entire wall takes 1 or 2 steps forward, leaving the Team A attackers in an offside position. Those attackers stand still, and A1 chips the ball over the wall. The attackers for Team A bolt for the ball as soon as it is kicked by A1.
What actions should the match officials take?
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Nickname:
ref47
Posts: 295
Member Since: 1/25/05
Posted: 12/8/2008 6:41am
Views: 1542
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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i must be missing something here. seems clearly to be offside that should be called. ar, flag up. ref, whistle.
offside on any number of players who are involved in play as no onside players are mentioned who could play the ball before the offside players. and, as this is very close to the keeper, a quicker call prevents collission with the keeper.
no problem with the technical advice from the coach.
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Nickname:
mnsocref
Posts: 17
Member Since: 8/04/06
Posted: 12/8/2008 10:08am
Views: 1551
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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Ref47, I think you did miss something-- Failure to Respect the Distance. The offside situation was created by committing misconduct.
The Spirit of the Game Referee in me says, let team A play the ball. They were in the correct place, and followed the law, so why should they be punished?
The Letter of the Law Referee in me says, call the offside and caution every last b@$t@rd in the wall for FRD.
I want to go with the Spirit, but I don't see any wiggle room in the LOTG
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Nickname:
ref47
Posts: 295
Member Since: 1/25/05
Posted: 12/8/2008 12:07pm
Views: 1547
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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yep. missed that the wall is now 8 yds from the kick. yes they were too close, but, did it make a difference? if this was a shot on goal - ball did not hit wall - let play continue. but, this is not a shot on goal (it is a pass); it is placing the opponent in an offside position by occupying a position that violates the lotg. so, do we punish the first infraction which created the opponent's (second) infraction? looking at it from this perspective i think we need to call the frd, card someone, retake the kick.
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Nickname:
Brianm
Posts: 492
Member Since: 4/20/00
Posted: 12/8/2008 1:04pm
Views: 1536
Replies: 0
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Re: Offside Scenario
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I would call for a retake but another thought would be to let it play out and see if any of the players offside play the ball or if an onside player actually plays the ball.
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Nickname:
JohnF
Posts: 1718
Member Since: 8/14/99
Posted: 12/10/2008 11:54am
Views: 1542
Replies: 1
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The Answer
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I too would have called for a retake, and perhaps shown a card or 2. That, however, would have been incorrect based on the following USSF answer. This is evidently to be treated in the same manner as if a defender deliberately left the field in order to leave an attacker in an offside position.
The USSF Q&A is:
The center referee calls a direct kick. He stops play to mark off the ten yards. All the defenders line up evenly across the field. An offensive player lines up next to the wall even or slightly in front of the wal l(less than 10yds).
Just before the kick is taken the players in the wall step forward to do an offside trap. The ball is chipped over the wall to the offensive player that was even with the wall and he scores.
Since the wall moved forward within the 10yds, it is actually encroachment. The offensive player that was where the wall was originally placed now looks like he was in an offside position.
How should the AR rule? Offside, or allow the play to continue and the goal count.
USSF answer (September 28, 2008):
Provided all is precisely as you say — and the kicking team’s player remained where he was when the wall was set and that all the opponents moved forward, making them all nearer to the ball than the required ten yards — there is no offside infringement to worry about. Why? Because the defending team committed the first infringement by violating Law 12’s requirement that a player must respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in. Thus the referee may simply invoke the advantage and allow the goal. In fact, if the referee felt so inclined, he or she could easily caution all members of t
he wall for committing that infringement.
In this case, the AR should leave the flag down. The team that lives by the offside trap also die by the offside trap.
Categories: Law 11 - Offside
[ Modified 12/10/2008 12:07pm by JohnF ]
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Nickname:
ref47
Posts: 295
Member Since: 1/25/05
Posted: 12/11/2008 6:40am
Views: 1524
Replies: 1
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Re: The Answer
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but...in the op we do not know what happened after the ball was played. we only know that the osps "bolted for the ball". so, it is not clear if advantage should be played. absent advantage, stop, card, rekick. if the attackers had advantage, follow ussf's advice.
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Nickname:
mnsocref
Posts: 17
Member Since: 8/04/06
Posted: 12/11/2008 7:45am
Views: 1511
Replies: 0
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Re: The Answer
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Interesting application of "advantage" when the USSF continues to insist that it only applies to violations of Law 12. Last I read, free kicks is Law 13! But, maybe this is a subject for another thread...
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Nickname:
JohnF
Posts: 1718
Member Since: 8/14/99
Posted: 12/11/2008 11:52am
Views: 1518
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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Evidently the USSF's bizarre advantage-only-for-Law-12-violations policy includes misconduct as well as fouls. Since FRD is listed as misconduct under Law 12, the above USSF answer says advantage can be given.
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Nickname:
mnsocref
Posts: 17
Member Since: 8/04/06
Posted: 12/11/2008 4:20pm
Views: 1503
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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Of course... Well played, USSF!
And, well interpreted, JohnF!
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Nickname:
Brianm
Posts: 492
Member Since: 4/20/00
Posted: 12/11/2008 5:32pm
Views: 1505
Replies: 0
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Re: Offside Scenario
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If the D lined up 13 yards from the ball and then moved forward, would that be an offside call?
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Nickname:
JohnF
Posts: 1718
Member Since: 8/14/99
Posted: 12/12/2008 8:03am
Views: 1498
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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In the case Brian mentions (ie: the wall was originally 13 yards from the ball) it would not be offside.
The wall would not have encroached since the defenders would still be 11 yards from the ball at the time it was played by A1, and the offside trap would be legal.
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Nickname:
Brianm
Posts: 492
Member Since: 4/20/00
Posted: 12/15/2008 11:11am
Views: 1484
Replies: 0
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Re: Offside Scenario
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Trap now moves form 13yrsd out, would you whistle it immediately or wait to see if any of them played the ball or an onside player played it?
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Nickname:
JohnF
Posts: 1718
Member Since: 8/14/99
Posted: 12/15/2008 12:39pm
Views: 1486
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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My thought would be to whistle immediately, but that assumes several things.
1. There is not at least 1 onside player who is going for the ball, in which case I would wait.
2. The ball is going straight toward the goal, and it doesn't look as though an offside player will get involved in the play or collide with the keeper.
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Nickname:
keith__286
Posts: 764
Member Since: 12/19/03
Posted: 12/27/2008 6:34am
Views: 1448
Replies: 0
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Re: Offside Scenario
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Nowhere in the post do we know which attacking players were onside and which were offside. Assuming some of each we'd need to wait and see if there was opportunity for onside player to reach ball first. As far as USSF'a view on advantage, they are, at least, consistent. ANYTHING in Law 12 is subject to advantage. This not only includes fouls but all the keeper violations listed and anything not previously listed in Law 12 for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player i.e. reiterating that misconduct falls under the indirec t free kick "fouls"
[ Modified 12/30/2008 7:44pm by keith__286 ]
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Nickname:
PA_Sokker_Ref
Posts: 801
Member Since: 3/11/01
Posted: 1/20/2009 2:51pm
Views: 1346
Replies: 1
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Re: Offside Scenario
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Retake the kick...that is enough..no cards are necessary unless it was a repeated offence.
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Nickname:
keith__286
Posts: 764
Member Since: 12/19/03
Posted: 1/20/2009 9:43pm
Views: 1349
Replies: 0
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Re: Offside Scenario
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USSF has officially ruled there is no offside offense here. Why would you retake the kick if there's an opportunity for the attackers to score? The defenders have violated Law 12 so we may give advantage. That said, if you choose to stop the kick and have a retake, why wouldn't you give a card? Would you give a card if they move to 6 yards? 5? What if one of the defenders runs up and stands directly in front of the ball?I'm just trying to get a feel for when you would caution for not giving the required distance on a first offense.
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