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What would you REALLY do?
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  Nickname: RefFormerlyKnownAsVancouverDave

Posts: 727
Member Since: 4/16/02

Posted: 11/19/2008 1:02pm
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  Question  What would you REALLY do?  
Hi, all.

My son, age 11, had a really messy match two weeks ago. The head coach was unable to attend the game. Several of the players didn't bring alternate jerseys, even though they were the home team at an in-club match. One parent, who drove home to get her son's alternate jersey, accidentally took all of the team's player cards and official roster along. Since we weren't able to produce the team documents within a reasonable time from match time, we had to forfeit. OK, that's the set-up.

After the Referee crew departed, I was invited to come on the field and referee a scrimmage, so the boys could actually play. (It was my first time on the field after my Achilles surgery.) I recruited parents to signal with flags when the ball went out of play.

At one point, the ball was rolling up the line. It was clear to me that the ball hadn't entirely crossed the line, but the parent on that touch line apparently hadn't paid attention to the Ball In & Out demo I gave before the match. He raised his flag. As I motioned for him to lower the flag, and indicated audibly that the ball was still in play, a player picked up the ball.

By the book, it's deliberate handling. If this had happened with club linesmen in an official BU12 match, and not a scrimmage, what would you have actually done?

FRKAVD

PS: I was really impressed at how the three teen-aged officials handled the whole scene. They communicated clearly, explained the requirements and options without apology or angst, and made me proud to be a part of this avocation. I sent a note of praise to their assignor.

   
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  Nickname: Brianm
Posts: 492
Member Since: 4/20/00

Posted: 11/19/2008 5:51pm
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  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
IMO it should be handling. Players should be playing the whistle and seeing you did not blow it they should not be stopping. Seeing it was a scrimmage use it as a coaching moment.

   
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  Nickname: JohnF
Posts: 1718
Member Since: 8/14/99

Posted: 11/21/2008 6:41pm
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  Happy  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
This is an interesting quandry.

I'm going to take a contrary postion on this one, based on the fact that the AR raised the flag. I would not consider the ball to be deliberately handled, as the player thought the ball was out of play after seeing the official raised the flag.

I would restart with a throw-in for the other team. The player would have carried the ball over the touchline to throw it in, so his "touch" was the last one while still in play.

   
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  Nickname: ref47
Posts: 295
Member Since: 1/25/05

Posted: 12/3/2008 6:05am
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  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
if i can see the ball is still in, call the violation, flag or no flag. if i am not sure it is still in, we have a throwin.

   
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  Nickname: refmike
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Member Since: 4/30/03

Posted: 12/16/2008 10:08am
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  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
Dave, I disagree with your original description that this was deliberate handling. This was an accident caused by the confusion of an errant flag signal. It is an opportunity to refresh the instruction to the club line and restart with a dropped ball.

We can discuss the fine points of the law in theory but in reality, in a real game or a scrimmage, we must not forget that the game belongs to the players and our job is to ensure safety and fairness, not to enforce every law every time.

   
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  Nickname: keith__286
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Member Since: 12/19/03

Posted: 12/16/2008 2:40pm
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  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
No refmike this is not an accident. The player clearly deliberately handled the ball. No mistake about it. The question is, do we punish it or not. If we don't punish it, what can we do. Play never stopped because the ball did not go into touch nor did the referee signal for a throw in or blow his whistle to signal for handling. In another post I argue the handling is trifling. I would argue that here and do one of 2 things, 1. yell loudly "Ball still in play put it down" or 2. when he took his hands off the ball blown the whistle and restarted with a dropped ball after having a conversation with the club linesmen and all the players. Now, had a coah reached out and stopped the ball while still in play we simply restart with a dropped ball

   
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  Nickname: refmike
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Member Since: 4/30/03

Posted: 1/26/2009 5:30pm
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  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
The "accident" was the unintended interference by the club line. USSF has already told us (via Jim Allen) that at a low level game, if a player reacts to a whistle from another field it should be considered an outside agent and play resumed with a dropped ball. This is no different.


   
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  Nickname: PA_Sokker_Ref

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Posted: 1/20/2009 2:44pm
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  Happy  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
The game should have been played without the credentials and that should have been put into the game report.

U12 match...ball that close and the player assumed it was out of bounds because of the raised flag....SELL IT! Throw in and go!

   
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  Nickname: RefFormerlyKnownAsVancouverDave

Posts: 727
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Posted: 1/20/2009 9:08pm
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  Happy  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
the league rules last year would have allowed the game to go forward when the entire team'scredentials are missing. But that was changed this year. As much as Imay disagree with eth league policy, the young refs did implement it correctly.

RFKAVD

   
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  Nickname: keith__286
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Member Since: 12/19/03

Posted: 1/20/2009 9:51pm
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  Re: What would you REALLY do?  
Same here in Georgia. The State is adamant about passes. No pass no play if passes are required for that age group and game. Intraclub games are exempt but no interclub games are

[ Modified 1/21/2009 9:34pm by keith__286 ]

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