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 TIDELINE FAQ+ |
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Monday, December 20
Why have I not heard of TIDELINE before?
I build a very limited number of these boats each year. I do not advertise because to do so would overload me to the point where either quality would go down or I would have a lot of people sending bad vibes my way. Both of these really make me feel terrible
How long?
I am extremely efficient with my time and I love to build these boats. I have over 22 years of experience working with composites and I apply all of it on every boat, component and paddle I build. While, it does not take 40 hours to build a boat. I like to allow myself that much time to complete one so I may help the other customers too. The waiting time varies depending on the season and I never rush. Please let me know what you are thinking/expecting.
Why are your prices so low?
I remain humble via my pricing in a world where things crafted by hand are either being exploited or are exorbitantly overpriced. My customers are smug in knowing they have something not everyone can get. I use the same and often times better materials than other manufacturers. Maybe I have a complex, but I just cannot bring myself to jack my prices. I can fend off the external voices / customers telling me my things are so nice and that I should be charging more but I just wouldn't sleep for the voices in my head.
Friday, January 9
A few words on construction ....... my one of my favorite subjects.
It has taken a year of squeezing in panel tests between building paddles and messing around with different mold releases often with frustrating and baffling results to get to where I can finally say...... I am forever DONE building with all "ester" type resins. I will not miss them.
From now on all Tideline kayaks will be built using Epoxy resin. ONNO paddles have always been built with epoxy. Epoxy resin is superior to "ester" resins for many reasons.
Q: If epoxy is so great why doesn't everyone use it?
A: It is a pain in the mold to work with. Epoxy's aggressive adhesive qualities play havoc with mold surfaces.
Tedious mold preparation and fastidious, time-consuming maintenance are the norm for every part and there is no room for error or not-in-my-job-description-attitudes. This stuff kills (mold releases and subsequently....expensive irreplaceable molds.)
A: It does NOT work with "ester" type gelcoats without a tie coat (more time and money) or some serious prep time to MAKE it to work. Can be done but no time to go into that here. See what I mean....now I'm doing it. :)
A: Epoxy demands attention when mixing.
A: Nowhere to hide (behind the curtain of a heavy gelcoat layer) when it comes to lay-up.
A: It is harder to for the poor folks at the local shop to "sell".
A: It is expensive........ 5-6 X.
Please note: I will be adding more here about Epoxy resin in order for you to really understand why I am traveling this road.
~We are now building all Tideline kayaks in a beautiful ivory (white) color.
~White is safe, and not just from a visibility standpoint.
~Direct sun can heat darker colored composites to beyond the heat distortion temperature of the resin causing warpage (cranked down too tight on racks), creeping of built in stresses (bulkheads installed too snug now showing as deformations of hull and or deck), over expanding of air trapped in laminate causing a blister, or even catastrophic collapse of entire deck (boat folds up when over loaded).
I am not saying that all dark colored boats are accidents waiting to happen ....far from it. Most all-composite kayaks built today have literally pounds of redundant reinforcement preventing the latter from ever happening.
~White hides everything and is a no brainer to touch up and repair.
~White is not a color so you never get sick of it.
~The outer surfaces of our boats are super strong and far more resistant to minor chips and spider cracking as the reinforcement is right at the surface. You will be happy for this the first time you "accidentally" park your boat on the rocks. See hammer test.
Q: Will scratches ruin the integrity of the hull?
A: Absolutely NOT ! You could take the same "stock" answer you hear everywhere about gelcoat scratches and put it here but I feel even that answer spawns paranoia.
I am having trouble getting started here as there is so much to say about this.
Epoxy is EXTREMELY water resistant and can withstand moisture incursion far better than any typical "ester" resin used for boat building. Don't believe it? Call any boatyard and ask what they recommend coating a hull with prior to bottom painting.
Prior to plastic, all whitewater boats were made using pigmented resins. The builders then knew that for a durable, lightweight, no nonsense boat it had to be done in glass?sans gelcoat.
Which sounds better? 4-5 lbs of 1 mm unreinforced color or take even half that 4-5 lbs. of superficial, non-structural weight "saved" from the lack of gelcoat and put some of it back into the hull and deck at critical wear and structural areas where it really matters........ Voila' !
That is what is going on here at Tideline.
I am trying to think of a nice description for our boat's construction. Performance oriented keeps coming to mind. By this I mean to say we invest our efforts cutting and placing plys ONLY where they are needed. This triples the amount of time it takes to layup the boat. In my opinion, it is really worth it. All but a few PRO BUILT race boats are built like this.
Instead most manufacturers use a couple heavy weight plys of cheap glass (woven roving in the case of two of the giants in the industry) which are loaded in and have their weaves filled with brittle-contributes-nothing-to-the-strength-of-the-boat-resin via an actual but not true to the process, process. To their credit the boats DO look pretty inside and out. All that superficial smoothness is just dead weight. This does nothing to help move the boat forward every stroke with maximum efficiency, allow the boat react to the slightest input or help you just make that wind swell to get the longest ride of your life.
If you ever get a chance, check out some of this heavy glass (available in a folded up bundle at most hardware, Home Depots or automotive stores for 6 X it's off the roll cost). Try and picture how much resin it takes to fill that weave till its smooth. Please also note the cost per yard and picture how much of it is in that 3000 +boat.
I build each one of these boats as if it was going before my peers for judgement.
Tideline kayaks are NOT quite as pretty as other boats on the market. Our philosophy in building Tideline kayaks is the same thing as our paddles. Slight variations are normal......as with all of us.
Please admire this in the same way you would view a race car......built for a purpose, performance first. I guess I would describe them the same way then. Elegantly functional
You will appreciate all our efforts every time you go out.....and take out.
Lots of info can be found on materials, much of it redundant generic rehash about bulletproof vests and tank armor, etc. That is ballistic cloth (Kevlar 29) and is not applicable for building kayaks at all. The only way these boats are stopping bullets is if our leaders paddle them together.
I would like to offer some practical info on various lay-ups.
There are many different of fabrics and dozens of weaves, finishes, and weights for each. I have played with ALOT of them and have narrowed things down to a select few which I use everyday in many combinations. Each of my boats is layed up custom tailored to the user's given requirements and expectations. You do not have to know all about boat building to help out in the decision making process. Anything you do not see here and are wondering about feel free to ask me. Once you understand how the materials work and apply for boat building the thought process is quite fun.
This is what keeps me up at night.
This is an overview of the materials as they apply to kayaks without really going into specifics of fabric weights and weaves. Each of these needing another page each. The gentle reader should glean all needed info from this to figure some things out.
Fiberglass is stiff, strong and relatively inexpensive when compared to other exotics.
Carbon is super stiff, stronger than equal areal weight glass. It does cost a lot more.
Kevlar is amazingly strong and tough. It costs more too but the real expense is working with it. Cutting and trimming is difficult at best.
Some interesting numbers for 5.7 oz cloths.... all have similar 18x18 type weaves.
Breaking strength: 5.7 oz. E glass 225-250 lbs.
5.7 oz. Carbon (6k?) 300 lbs.
5.0 oz Kevlar 650 ! lbs.
Friday, January 9
One would think the Kevlar is the only way to go. It is and it isn't.
There are many ways to lay up a boat. It would be refreshing to hear manufacturers reasons behind why they choose to do one thing or another rather than just offer something as the end all.
Are they building with Kevlar to save weight or to have a stronger boat? (Or to make more $$$?)
Which is stronger? Glass or Kevlar?
Before my head explodes with all I have to say and do not have time to write....I will say this.
A glass boat layed up thoughtfully will take more minor bumps and grinds and will also absorb a greater amount of energy than kevlar BEFORE it STARTS to fail.If a equally layed up kevlar boat were built it would not take as much abuse before it would start to soften up .......BUTTTTT. A kevlar boat WOULD endure catastrophic force far better.
If a giant were to pick up a glass boat and wack it across a log it would probably break 1/2 - 3/4 of the way through on the first hit and fly to pieces on the second.
A kevlar boat would make a dull thump on the first hit and show some damage in the form of delamination of plys but would be mostly intact. The second hit would probably cause failure of the resin and the boat would lose it's shape at point of impact but it would still most likely stay together. It would take several more hits by an increasingly frustrated being before the boat would come apart.
This is what kevlar can do.....now picture what would happen if a jetski plowed into you to offshore or you bailed on a big set and your "lifeboat" pounded on the rocks for a set or two before getting spat out.Kevlar can provide security a non balistically layed up glass boat could not.
A quick synapsis of my personal construction opinions. Please note I do not follow the same line of thinking many of the Majors do.
I can build a super light all glass boat but I do not recommend this. The thinner glass layup is not quite as tough as the light Kevlar layup and due to the extra labor involved I would also charge the same price to build one.
If boats are going to be bounced off of rocks on a regular basis in any conditions other than blue water go for the standard glass construction. Unbelieveably tough and resistant to bump and grind damage. Still light and does well enduring the day to day stuff for a long time. Save some $$$ too.
If boat will see occasional rocks only and will not be abused with IN heavy surf / rescues with boat wallowing full of water etc. AND a light weight,stiff, super strong, safe build is the goal , go for the Lightweight Kevlar layup........ I just call it Kevlar layup.
Blue water, real potential for life threatening conditions , boat may hit a submerged rebar at speed it, MUST stay together after shark , jetski or cargo ship attack........ Go for a kevlar layup built up around the weight of a similar glass boat then add a bit. Please let me know what you are thinking / picturing.
So much to say here.....happy to discuss over phone if you wish......no pressure ever.....here to help. Until I really write down each scenario I am trying to describe briefly here all this might sound confusing.
Especially if you go by what other manufacturers are doing. I do not have a generic Kevlar layup. Each one is custom built based on it's intended use. Most of the added cost of a kevlar boat over a standard glass layup is labor.....Carbon does add a bit more even though it is easier to work with.
Friday, January 9
Hammering the hulls
See Hammer Test. This is a 19 hull built in our standard glass/epoxy layup. The hull weighs 18 pounds on its own. NO special layup or tricks.......this part is sitting here in the shop and I invite anyone who is around to stop by , draw a target on any part of it and have at it. Please note these clips were NOT one take, we shot several and picked the best ones and no these were not the first takes. There is NO damage or even marks at impact zone. This prompted me to flip to the claw and go again......still same story.
A similar weight kevlar boat would have held up as well on the surface but would have some interlaminar weakening though one might not see it.
A lightweight kevlar layup would also have held up , shown a little more localized damage in the form of delamination/softening over a larger area but it still would be intact.
A lightweight (cored) glass layup would have shown more damage, but the hammer would still bounce off the first and second times. Claw might have pierced it on first shot.
Dear readers,
This is as far as I have had time for. I promise to add lots more interesting and hopefully enjoyable info in the very near future. If you have specific questions about materials and or construction please feel free to call or click anytime. You will never get a hurried response or a hard pitch. Just info you can use.
I know as you shop around you will hear conflicting opinions on all this....please consider the source.
What I like about being in this business are the people I get to deal with. Cerebral consumers who are open minded enough to cut through the hearsay, hype and negativity served up by competitive types who often do not have your best interests as their priority.
What I hope you conclude is that I am not trying to SELL you something. I am achieving what I honestly feel is the best way to construct a kayak and offering it to the person who feels it will dovetail into their needs.
I ask that you really look at and think about what I am saying.
In the end it's best to trust your own judgment because you are the one actually using the stuff.
Thank you.
Why we use foam bulkheads?
In my opinion, glassed in bulkheads are not the way to go. I feel 2-3 inch high density foam bulklheads bonded with the CORRECT adhesive are much safer. Picture your boat riding in on a wave to a rocky shore landing...loaded or not. If there is a rock protruding when the water washes out and your boat comes down on that ridged, stress riser, hard spot of a bulkhead, there is a very good chance of either cracking the hull or bulkhead or if nothing else the joint may unbond leaving a spot that will leak forever leaving you to glass it again. Thereby starting the whole cycle anew. Glass it stronger?
Hull will break. Foam bulkheads done correctly do not leak, all but eliminate hull/bulkhead damaging force if/when it occurs in this area by having a larger hull contact area which defuses the force by absorbing it not futilely trying to resist it. They also provide added passive buoyancy if the boat becomes swamped. If they do blow out from hydraulic forces beyond our control they can be punched back into position and be effective. You may also diffuse your own stress here too. How about finding a whale rib that will not fit? Punch out the foam and slide it in. I have been installing these in my TIDELINE kayaks for over 5 years now without a single problem. I also can give you examples of rigid/glassed in bulkheads blowing out and cleaving boat.
Another reason we do not like glassed in bulkheads.
One scenario;
You punch a hole, not a giant gash, just something tiny that allows water into bow of boat and slowly takes away your ability to safely control boat.... forward area floods. Applys to rear too.
Foam bulkhead:
Kick out slightly to allow water to run to Cockpit - pump out.
Foam bulkhead still stays in place ( or can be pushed back into place) to control flow and offer positive flotation in worse case. Reseal after trip or overnight on trip.... moisture HELPS cure silicone.
Glass bulkhead:
Can you kick it out? Possible worse damage to hull / deck? Once broken it's no longer functional until repairs can be made.......dry out, cut out, layup again (PITA), wait for cure. Little or no positive buoyancy offered by bulkhead material.
Bulkhead placement
I place the aft bulkhead only about 1/2" aft of the coaming.....I would put it flush if I did not have to leave a little bonding area for the silicone fillet. This does several things, most importantly it allows almost every bit of water to be spilled out when the boat is turned over and lifted from the bow...a significant safey plus for many reasons. Two , it supports the coaming - to - boat bond line when all your weight is sitting right on top of this; small bond area - way - to - unyeilding/ridged of a joint for the potential overloading it may have to bear spot on the deck. And three, just because it is a by product of above real reasons why I do it.......the aft storage volume is increased. One thing that DOES bolster stating this third point is the fact that as you load your boat , just as you would place the heaviest things in the bottom of a pack, you are able to place the weight as close as possible to the center of gravity/buoyancy thus diminishing conceivable handling variations. Another reason all true touring kayaks should have fore and aft adjustable seats.
The forward bulkhead is mounted as far aft as as possible for some of above reasons as well. Think of how much less water the boat will take on (assumption: you are going to get water INSIDE the boat some day..sorry) for every inch the bulkhead is moved back ........and how you will now be able to take your full size pillow in the new found space forward.
DAY HATCHES.....
If you want one please re- read above and let me know. I can put another bulkhead in to build this compartment any size you want. There are several available options ..of which I am happy to present and discuss with you. One nice option is the waterproof inspection port with a small removable water resistant packcloth ( 400 denier ?) bag which hangs suspended from a lip built into the mount. You may put this any place on boat. This may be all you are looking for and will allow you to keep important things dry , secure and easily accessible without adding another bulkhead. I have mounted these on the forward deck for people in liu of a deck bag as well.
OUTFITTING
All boats come rigged (sans rudder) the way you see them in the photos.I laugh everytime I see 'safety lines' or 'full bunji' listed as one of the 'features' in an ad and choke when I hear of upcharges 30.00 and more to add it. You want bunji in a different configuration? Just let me know. I am happy to do or add it. I will send you some extra bunji and and padeyes with stainless steel hardware to do it yourself if you wish. No charge to not put it on either :)
I am happy to install other equipment you might have in mind as well. I ask that you let me know in advance if possible so I may alter the layup if needed.
Have a good idea for a sail rig? I do.
Different footbraces, rudder, line, bunji, cable sizing?.......no worries..
I typically use the smaller,lighter weight stainless steel padeyes for the bow and u-bolts for the stern simply because the boat (not only mine) will fail long before these fittings reach their maximum load rating. So why put excess weight where it has the most detrimental effect on the boat's handling. Think 2 ounces at the end of a 9 foot pole. Please read more on this in NO END POURS!
Why we only spec. our boats with "T" shaped grab handles.
Your out of the boat in the surf. Swimming in or swimming it out of impact zone or just trying to duck the set, common sense tells you to at least try to hang on to it for a couple waves if you can. How is one supposed to hang onto a twisting boat via one of those stiff, arm wrenching, rubber screen door handles ??? I think the folks who spec those should give them a try in the surf. Unless they have some bull riding background, they will soon realize their folly. I just don't get it when they tout stuff like this in their adds as a preferred "feature".... sort of like SUV adds that brag about folding rear seats.... o.k. sorry about that ;)
Hanging onto to a toggle in the surf lets the boat rotate on its own into a less projected area orientation....
Now the toggle should also be as close to the end of the boat as possible, be drilled such that a finger cannot get caught between it's loop (Remember Sniper movie?) and that loop should also be long enough to let the writhing boat rotate however it wants without winding up the line to crank ones knuckles against the boat. Not really possible on the stern with ruddered boats .... but all can have this "New Feature" on the bow.
We just double the loop/toggle (clove hitch?) through itself so a person can easily remove it tool free in seconds if they want. Nice for travel so they are not marking up the boat from millions of cycles while on the racks in the wind.
While I can honestly say that I have never even noticed the handles moving around up front, it seems this happening bothers some folks. Again we have ours set up to come right off.... One can substitute the small diameter yacht braid we use for a shorter length of larger diameter bunji so the handle is pretty close to boat and will flop around less....beware bunji is not as strong and does not knot so securely,,, better to back up the knot with a couple SS hogrings. Still bunji should allow for knuckle clearance when loaded up. A band of velcro ( use the more flexible 'loops' part for this) around the handle and a tiny bit of (hooks) on the deck or side of hull would also keep things in place.
NO END POURS!
I know I am setting myself up for faceless, impersonal, not from true experience anything criticism by those nickel's worth of knowledge 'experts' here but please think about it . I was not building fiberglass white water boats years ago but my guess is that the idea of pouring a big glob of thixsotropic resin or even unthickened resin into the bow and stern of seakayaks is a hold over from those days. I do NOT do this. The exception is a tiny bit of super lightweight filler I add in order to facilitate mounting a pin type rudder.
Please note I am not taking a defensive position here. I take great care to have the 45/45 seam tape wrap around and (remain in contact with) the bow and stern seams. Actually overlapping from each side and building in 'doublers' for several inches. Overkill already.
The end pour IS a great way to cover up poor workmanship in this time consuming often frustrating (no one will ever see it anyway) area of the boat.
With all the tight radius built in strength of this area supported from behind with the seam tape , this area is now VERY strong. If you were to hit something hard enough to damage or even sever off the bow/stern a big glob of resin is NOT going to prevent major damage from occuring. It will simply transfer it the destructive energy to a weaker area a bit past the pour. Please read my backround statements for my 'resume' /experience on this matter....I have seen it happen many times. Now if you were to hit a wall with a nail sticking out (perfect bullseye) head on .....that would be a different ..and interesting story.
An argument could be put forward about the damping achieved with extra weight way out at the ends, this is great for a land yacht maybe but not for a kayak. The negative effects both realised and theoretical of having so much dead weight in the least beneficial position cannot be ignored.
Quick (for now) rudder thoughts
Rudders......
Tons can be said here and you will never lack for an opinion pro or con. Though it seem the ones who shout the most are the......I better stop.
I sometimes wish someone would steal everything I own (again) save for my molds so I could run even more stripped down. I like the idea of perfection being achieved by taking all unnecessary facets away rather than adding. BUT.............. While some may be able to skillfully negotiate certain waters/conditions sans appendages I disagree with people who would TELL others they do not or should not need a rudder.
A rudder may bring you peace of mind knowing it's there if and when the time comes when you truly need / want it.
A SKEG is playing right down the middle of the debate. The 15 loves the skeg and when conditions warrant it you can really tune the boat's handling with a SKEG. I feel the 19 does not really need the SKEG and in such conditions where one may feel it's needed, I opine you would be happier with a rudder.
Some feeding and care tips.
*Feeding:
The gelcoat on a kayak is very U.V. stable and requires no real maintenance for it to last and stay glossy for a long time. After use, a fresh water wash, with soap if you have time and waxing will keep it protected. Save your money when it comes to expensive waxes. Better to apply a cheaper wax often than a 'miracle' wax once a year. If possible store boat in the proverbial cool dry place. If you keep it covered for long periods of time beware of mildew. Dark colors, including carbon and Kevlar are especially sensitive to degradation from the environment.
*Care:
Do not store boat with water/moisture inside of it. Remove hatch covers to let boat dry out completely. If nothing else it will smell better. Beware direct sun. Dark colors and black any thing can get hot enough to distort if stored under load.
If storing on the ground slip some high-density foam or even 3/4 inflated 2 liter soda bottles under ENDs of boat to keep belly off the ground. The 'V" shape can take the point loading better as it is much stiffer. Please do not store much more than your pfd. and spray skirt (dry) in the boat. If hanging the boat use at least 3" wide straps, which conform to hulls shape, placed similarly.
I see people inch their boats up to the beach so as to avoid scratches then drop their defenseless possession onto the car rack and crank down full body weight on the straps. Just because racks are curved doesn't mean they fit your boat. Adjust them as best you can to hull's shape then place or better yet, glue or Velcro some sleeping pad foam over these to help them better conform to hull's shape. Wipe any sand / road grit off before placing boat on them. The better they fit, the less tension needed on the straps. Plastic boats and to a lesser degree but just as 'pressing' composite boats should not sit in the hot sun under tensioned straps for any more time than it takes to get them where they need to be. The damage done may be irreversible by the end of the day. Sliding the boat on rack's edges or pushing it across wheels that do not turn is like dragging a 20 pound rubber mallet down the length of the hull.
If you get a scratch / gouge: PLEASE do not let it ruin your day, keep paddling with the knowledge that ANYTHING can be fixed. You are not causing further damage by using it. If you were storing boat in the water for months then a problem might develop. Though you would be more concerned with the crops growing on bottom. Wait; do I have to say it? A scratch or gouge is minor surface damage, which in no way allows water incursion and is not a threat to the structural integrity of boat. Someone please tell me if that statement absolves me of all responsibility. Thank you.
If boat gets worse than above. i.e. crack or break you will most likely see/hear/smell/feel broken fibers or damage. Becareful around bulkheads, cockpit rim, hatch covers, hardware and end pours. You may not be able to tell something is wrong in these and other areas. If damaged area is constantly moving such as under the seat or around foot braces it could get worse. BE CAREFUL. I have see boats taking on water due to the heel area under foot braces being worn thin. If you are not sure DO NOT GO OUT. Ask your shop or better yet consult a qualified boatbuilder what to do.
How to touch up a minor surface scratch.
For a solid 10 years while developing my paddles and boats I supported myself by repairing high end sailboards, racing yachts and all kinds of paddlecraft. Many times my shop looked like a tradeshow except the boats were not all glossed up. I have seen boats that were bailed out of, the owner finally putting her life in perspective, not wanting to go up against a rocky shoreline and 6-8 foot surf. (Read more in materials) Or the TWO fiberglass tandems that simultaneously pulled the rip cord at 85 mph.
As most repair guys will tell you, it is most amusing to see the faces of those who sometimes think there's nothing left but the crying'. What they will NOT tell you is how easy it is to repair. The mystery behind the curtain is how they make their money. Read grossly overcharge. The fact that I never played on these fears is probably why I still have people calling me years later to let me know how great their repaired to like new equipment is holding up. If I am fortunate enough to be good at something it is probably diagnosing and repairing these thin laminates and maybe building paddles and boats. I intimately know about what works and what doesn't when it comes to kayak and paddle construction. I have been accused of preferring to build boats and paddles rather than use them. I will only say you honestly get your money's worth when I build something for you. My 'loss' is your gain. Thank you.
How to touchup a minor surface scratch or gelcoat gouge. Taking the above exultations to heart, this is how I would do it if I really wanted to have something come out nice and not cause further trauma. If you do not make a mess you probably are doing it right. Alot of this detail work can also be applied when touching up the paint on your car. Be patient, check your work, and use tape until you get a feel for things.
What you need: Most things can be purchased at Home Depot or a Marine store. Or ask me.
* Acetone for clean up. Maybe.
* Rubber gloves
* Dust mask or better yet a respirator for the dust AND fumes.
* 3/4 inch masking tape, generic brand is fine, save your money for more important things........
*.....Like sand paper. Imperial Production wet or dry sand paper from 3M is worth the extra cost in time/effort /boat saved. 320grit, 600grit, and finally 1200/1500grit...2000 if you can get it.
These numbers would most likely be 280,400/1000/1200 if you can only find the generic brand. These are the approximate equivalent of the superior 3M. I am already writing a book here but I need to say something about some of these (non 3M) sand papers lest other composite guys call me on it. Some of these papers have silicone in them and may cause bonding problems on subsequent repairs should you need to do something over. Just call me if you need a more elaborate explanation.
*POLISHING not rubbing compound. As above please read label and avoid silicones if you can. Label should also say "For removal of 1200 /1500 grit scratches." I use 3M FINESSE IT because it does a great job, washes out of non-skid, clothing, and I can relate to the name better than Great White.
* Buffer or any thing that turns quickly with the aide of electricity and will accept a quality buff pad.. People who do this for a living do not have time to waste on one of those wimpy sloth buffers. Buy a quality buff pad at the same place you get the compound. I prefer the hairy wool POLISHING pads for gelcoat and boats. If you will use this on your car (paint) more than your boat you may wish to get a foam pad as these work well and are safer to use on all the contours cars have. P.S. you really do not NEED a buffer, a little elbow grease will also work with compound and a clean cotton rag though not nearly as good. Three minutes hand buffing will not bring up the shine 3 seconds with the tool will.
* Utility razor blades...lots of uses.
* Flat file..maybe
* Flat 2"x3" piece of something that bends a little bit. Do not go for the '3"x6" 'wetsand block ' next to the paper .......too big for scratches. My favorite is .250 high density foam. I can even break off a corner for tiny spots.
Bends a little bit= 1/8 paneling, rubber truck bedliner, dumptruck mudflap, cd case (cd is too flexible), or a piece of cardboard matching the footprint of a block of hardwood. Or get the block and cut it down. The control you get with the smaller size far surpasses the speed and potential for mistakes you get using the block full size.
*Material; if you are lucky you have some of the original gelcoat that matches your boat perfectly. (Supplied with all TIDELINE kayaks) You may contact the manufacturer and request some, have the boat's serial# at hand. I highly recommend doing this. If you care enough about your boat's cosmetics to be repairing scratches you will NEVER be satisfied unless the color is at least close. Now that I think about it , a severely scratched boat would look good if the scratches were repaired in a complementary contrasting color. While I am here I will say this. Most people I have ever talked to are overly worried about scratches. I always try to talk folks out of fixing them.. they really are not harming the boat. Each scratch is it's own entity and ALOT more work than you think to fix it properly and if not properly than why do it at all? Look at the bottom of your boat, which ones do you start with? There are probably alot more than you thought. I honestly think a scratched/non-repaired boat looks far more attractive than a cobbed, patched up one. If you are getting ready to sell boat maybe polish it up, but that is really as far as you should go in my opinion. Why not just re-gelcoat or paint it??? Please read answer in future FAQ.
Should we stop here???
If you cannot get the proper gelcoat here are some options;
Use any color, try to use those generic pigments to match your boat (good luck and over use of these inhibit the complete curing of gelcoat), pay someone to match it ,i.e. how much money do you have?...Buy a new paddle with this money instead, or use clear-slightly thickened resin. I feel the latter is the easiest to work and live with.
I may raise some dust here but the clear polyester FINISHING resin you can buy at Home Depot or surf shop/possibly model shop probably not at the marine (laminating and not pretty) store dovetails right into the plan. It's clear and will only slightly darken original color, no fussing with color and it cures fast and consistently . If you wish you may use straight resin to fill scratches, gravity may want a say here and your answer to this is to tilt boat or use a bit of filler to thicken the resin. If you are really going for cosmetics, take your time and use straight resin. Otherwise purchase the smallest amount of any kind of filler. West Systems 406 is perfect.
MAKE THE TIME TO DO IT RIGHT
Do:
* Soap and water boat. Dry.
* Identify scratches you wish to repair. If you really are going to do this ,go for the ones that are through to glass first. Not necessarily because these need it but these are the deepest and will give you a taste of what's to come and if you want to stop, at least you have solice in knowing you got the big ones done.
* If you have a Dremel tool or die grinder ever so slightly rough up the scratch starting at the middle and working towards the edges on either side of scratch, depending on the bit you are using (I like the egg shaped ones) you may be able to do this all on one neat pass. Just clean it up a bit. Use your judgment whether or not to go deeper when cleaning out chipped edges. This whole procedure can also be done using a small round file. I use (and in no way avocate you do the same) a razor blade held perpendicular to scratch in two hands dragged up and down. P.S. I traded in the noisy die grinder and dremel for this.
* Contrary to everything you have or may read; do NOT take this opportunity to wipe the area 'clean' with acetone.....it is as clean and fresh as it can possibly be and to wipe it with acetone risks smearing surrounding area's contamiates back into it or glazing (my word) the surface over. Blow it out or use a small clean brush.
* Once you have cleaned this up tape along edge of repair leaving a tiny (1mm) gap next to cleaned out area. This allows for material lifting a bit when tape is pulled but not out of repair and leaves a bit of sacrificial material to aide when fairing things in later. Tape as continuous and flat a line as you can. If you are messy use paper here to mask surrounding area.
From here on resin and gelcoat get treated the same way.
* Set boat so resin will run as little as possible if you are using it neat. Use tape to make dams if you want knowing it is just more sanding later. Mix up resin fairly 'hot' and work in small batches. Thicken to slightly thinner than peanut butter and use a fresh razor blade or cut down plastic applicator to trowel mixture into scratches pushing a bit and going in two or more directions to get a good bond and to be sure the area is 'wet out'. Hopefully your tape job is good. Do not go too far away from these as you will now use a clean blade set flat on your smooth tape job to drag excess mixture off and thereby cutting your sanding time down to almost nothing.
* Pull tape or not???????? I will always pull tape straight up unless mixture has started to cure. I do not recommend pulling tape if you are using resin straight. I do it but you have to babysit it and wait for the time where resin will not pullout of repair but will pull up with tape. You may have to do a second run with the straight resin...do this as soon as first batch of resin kicks in. Do not worry about sealing wax.. just keep going.
* Once tape is pulled and resin has started to cure I usually push my luck a bit and trim the high spots down with a razor blade held flat against contours of boat. Beware of pulling repair out or cutting too low and your fingers here.
* Whatever you do please DO NOT fall for that "place a piece of wax paper over repair" there by smearing your repair all over boat and having to do it again piece of misinformation. The object is to have your repair be ever so slightly proud to which you blend it in with surrounding area without going too low. This procedure guarantees doing things multiple times especially if surface is convex. For small scratches you really do not have to worry about top layer of gelcoat curing hard as you most certainly have a fully cured layer just below the top of your repair and will buzz right through that top layer effortlessly. If you want. Purchase some PVA from your marine store/composite supplier with which to seal (brush on) top layer right after gelcoat has gotten to a rubbery state......or spray it on once gellcoat has just started to kick in.
*If I am really feeling lucky I endeavor to use razor as a scraper and bring filled area down to almost perfect. Then I START wetsanding at my final grit. Try it and save time precious or.......................walk away for a few hours-overnight.
* You should have no more than playing card thickness to sand down..narrow strips no less. Warning :the gelcoat is very thin on kayaks/canoes. Thinner and less forgiving still on cars. (Paint) You really do not want to even touch (too much) the area surrounding repair until the last few strokes of 600 grit or higher. If you are not confident or just want to play it safe put tape back down and start wet sanding and changing tape as it peels up. Now I hope you can see why that bigger block would be a hindrance. If you left tape in place (neat resin) keep going until you can peel tape up. If you really had left alot, the file or a coarser grit might save a bit of time and chew through the heavy stuff faster. Keep dipping the paper in water to keep a sharp 'edge' and check your work often by wiping and inspecting. Wetsand the entire repair a little at a time.
* If your repair was barely sticking up (fingernail just catches) you should be starting out with no coarser than 600 grit. Resist the desire to sand all around the edges of repair...get the middle down a bit then work towards the edges and finally from the surrounding area into the repair using your smooth, held flat piece of flotsam. If you start to see a dark color from below I would either stop or move right to 2000 and call it a day after that. Things are getting thin. Or switch to a finer grit earlier to be safe. In my experience you will not get as perfect a repair doing this as the finer grits do not take off much material (they tend to simply round things over) when using a flexable pad....... but what you have will end up shiny.
Speaking of shiny, do you really want to have a bunch of glossy spots on the bottom of your boat? If not wetsand only to match surrounding area's sheen and buff. Or remove all the fittings, keep going with the 2000 and buff out the whole boat to have it look better than ever right as you sell it.
* Wash off all wetsanding sludge. Dry. Install buff pad on machine. I like to put the compound on the boat first ... why load up the pad before you even touch the boat? Use the "Haul out the chainsaw once a year to decimate flora" throttling technique. So compound does not centrifugally vanish, gradually increase speed as compound drys. You do not have to get every last bit off with buffer... it will wash off later. Satisfied? Wax it. I could go on and on here with subtle tricks of the trade. If you come to a point where you do not know what to do please feel free to ask.
If I had to build up the perimeter of a THIN LAMINATE blade
and have it come out nice: (A thicker wood blade would be slightly different)
Do one side at a time....
Mask area to be built up 1/4" inch back from edge.
Sand to tape for prep. Do both sides of paddle at this time.
Pull masking tape and retape w/ fresh again at 1/4" line. Also place another layer of tape over this one at 1/8" or half the distance of first one to edge..... do above 1/4" & 1/8" on one side only....
Mask 'backside' of repair to over hang 1/4"+ out away from edge.... creating a dam so to speak.
Important!> Make sure the dam comes STRAIGHT OUT from edge and does not curve towards or away from area being built up. This is one reason to not have tape come out more than 1/4" or so from edge.. no worries on straight runs but doing the curved tips will cause tape to want to curl....Use more (pieces) tape if you want to do more than 1/4" or so.. Really press the tape down around any chips or chunks you are trying to fill in too. If chunk is ragged , sand edges smooth and even bevel it a bit on both sides for more mechanical grip.
A smart thing to do with tape in hand here is to mask w/ paper the rest of paddle now. Shaft too.
Use Uni carbon or glass, forget kevlar, not worth the trouble........ note; to 'make' your own uni, buy some cloth which is more useful for other projects and just pull a few long bundles out of it, viola ! Uni.
Wet out with Epoxy and lay onto sanded-taped-masked-horizontally sitting blade. If you have to, place shaft LIGHTLY in a vice to achieve best compromise of levelness. Do not use too much resin. Experiment on table first to see how much is needed....place wet out long strands ( wet out on table first) into position & poke it into position just along the 1/8" tape line and hanging off the edge.
Gently work out as much resin as poss and still keep strands in place with the 1/8" tape line just showing. (This is the best reason to play with some on the table first.... told you so already.)
Once it is not so juicy , pull 1/8" tape.
Smooth out biasing strands and excess resin towards edge by laying some wrinkle free 4 mil plastic down over strands starting at 1/4" tape line and moving outward. Should have a tiny bit of resin 'backfill' to tape 1/4" tape line but strands stay in place at 1/8".
Let cure before pulling plastic.
Pull all tape including backside and repeat above on other side..... lightly sanding for prep again if excess resin migrated under tape on what was the 'backside' initially.
If done right the only sanding ness on blade is a tiny bit from the thickness of the 1/4" tape line..... a good reason to use the best 3M Pinstripe tape + it will do the curves of the blades in a single piece.
Even this little line will probably be better than the jagged edge like before. Would be cool to add some pigment to resin for a colored edge look.
Sand 'new land' on outside edge of paddle to taste.... should be plenty there to file first followed up with 320/600 wet or dry.
Use in best of health and happiness.
Foot brace install......
Sit in boat and ask another person to place a piece of tape ( inside boat) where the ball of your foot is when in a comfortable position..... if no one around, eyeball where your foot is in relation to one of the deck / bunji bolts and use a marker to make a dot if ness.Ê Exit boat. With foot brace in hand decide if you want your foot in the middle of footbrace available adjustment, just at the end orÊ beginning etc........ slide foot peg to this idea position...... only need to focus on one side for now.Ê Note; if you think only people taller than you will ever use the boats leave youself at least 4 -6 clicks anyway on the AFT OR SHORTER PERSON SIDE ( TOWARDS THE SEAT) just in case.....If you think you will be the tallest person to ever use the boat, still leave 4- 6 clicks on the far side of rail, just in case you like to paddle stretched out, are wearing boots or simply make a gross error in judgement with this whole mounting thing.
Now you must figure out where the holes must be drilled.Ê This really is a two person job, but I will go over the solitary methodÊ at each stage. Best to do this in bright light / sunlight.
With actual foot peg in the position you would like it to be at on rail, lean inside boat and hold entire assembly with the foot peg contact side ( part your foot touches) right at the same mark you made for where the ball of your foot was earlier..... now look at the FORWARD mounting hole of the foot brace rail....... have the second person armed with a marker literally TOUCH the boat and move their single finger towards the above mentioned forward hole as you hold it in position steady..... you will easily see their finger through the boat as it gets closer to the spot where the forward mounting hole for foot brace is...... coach them along to the right spot...... please note: no need for exact up or down placement for now..... just get the for/ aft position right.... easier to have the person zoom in OVER the foot brace by touching on deck instead of under on hull..... once the person's finger is right over the mounting hole , ask them to make a mark on out side of boat........ hard part is over now. Come on out and get some air...... if by yourself, you need to poke the marker right through the forward mouning hole once the foot peg is in the right position in order to drill hole from INSIDE the boat...... I STRONGLY DO NOT ADVISE DOING THIS as it is really hard to judge the correct up / down placement unless you know what you are doing..... even I would put this offÊ 'till I had another person to help. For our 15 foot boats, I have generic placements which range between 48" and 52" as measured from the forward end of the front padeye but do not use these for custom mounting these still do not address the difficulty in judging the up / down part..... forget about doing this part by yourself.....
O.K.,Ê the mark where the forward hole of the foot brace rail is on outside the boat..... chuck up the 1/4" drill bit...... drill hole BELOW SEAM LINE...... how high or low you ask?
[ PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING IS FOR A TIDELINE 15.... your boat may and will probably be a bit different when it comes to height here]..... an easy way to see this is look at the rubber donut...... this thing should just NOT touch the blue or red tape line, stick it on and drill hole.Ê OR.Ê You will also see a slight angle line in hull where the hullÊ curve ends and a sort of almost vertical contour starts ( cannot see it? just run your thumb up and down and you will feel it easily)..... you can feel the apex of this..... drill 3/8" BELOW this....... don' t let all this worry you.... impossible to really mess it up unless you think the Deck is the Hull........ O.K. BACK TO ALL BOATS
Drill away...... now please measure hole placement and go to the other side, mark and drill...... I like to have my partner hold the tape measure on the forward part of the front padeye to keep things consistant..... ( ifÊ by yourself, place a piece of tape on tape measure to hold in place against said padeye) pull taught and mark the forward hole on the other side.
Stick on sealing donuts over holes or thread rubber washers over mounting bolts...... hold footbrace inside boat against hull and hand thread forward screw, ( note your position.... welcome to my world :) ha haÊ ) taking care not to cross thread it...... it will go easier than it seems here as the machine screw will find it's way pretty ( thread in ) easy..... twist 'till semi tight..... keep the rail up. If you really care you can put some anti-sieze or at least grease on threads of SS screws as they WILL be going into a dissimilar metal ( aluminum rail) so they can be removed someday. Do the other side too..... Side note; We like to put the sealing washers on the OUTSIDE of the boat.. resulting in diffused stress from bolt head to hull interface and allow more footbrace to hull contact on the inside.
Side benefit is they seal better too with less tension.
Now switch drill bits to the tiny < 1/8" one............. your goal is to have the hole pop out in relatively the same position up / down ( remember above vertical apex contour? ) wise as the first one..... no way to do it wrong but if going for perfection might as well know the goal.....
FROM THE INSIDE OF BOAT....... note position of the rail and first hole as related to actual hull / deck seam line and hull / deck seam tape........ place drill bit inside of rear mounting hole of footbrace rail and use the bit to raise rail up so the rail is relatively parallel to above seam line and tape.... once there this is your time to drill the hole for the rear mounting bolt..... keep the bit inside the footbrace rail mounting hole and ram it through the hull towards the outside..... repeat on other side .........
Switch drill bits back to the 1/4" size to enlargen the hole for the rear bolt..... generally it will not be perfect ( but try for it) and this is where the 5/16" bit comes in........... drill the 5/16" hole and your rear bolt hole will be large enough to hand thread in the rear mounting bolt...... don't forget the donut.....
Once both bolts are threaded, simply crank down on them till they just stop turning and then back of 1/8 - 1/4 turn...... done.... please notice all phillips screw heads are aligned..... this should work for the foot brace mount bolts too........
Excerpt from a post on 02 / 09 / 06 some personal thoughts below:
Entire discussion @ http://www.ocpaddler.com/node/1322
Yep, boat building is hard, dirty work and all the training in the world cannot replace years of experience behind the squeegee. You could hold a persons hand and they still would not know what to feel for. A sensitivity and connection with the parts must be formed and everyboat has a different personality. One must be very machine like to consistantly turn out good parts. After the process is amalgamated down, there are no more shortcuts to good work other than putting the time in to do it right. Building super thin laminates leaves little room for error. In my experience working with and starting my own 'factory' in Thailand I have seen perfect parts being done one day then the next being all wrong like the guy building them had a new head put on overnight. Things are just different and sometimes more money is not the answer. Nice to have a couple parties for the guys throughout the year and treat them fair and with respect. Not as second class as they sometimes feel as they are looked upon by gazing overdressed Farangs ( foreigners) who make no attempt to speak their language or even acknowledge their existance as they tour a factory with a English speaking manager. I have seen this in person at a major composite building site and watched the faces of the employees as the 'tourist' fell out of earshot and siteline. I think you can all relate to this.
For what its worth, we are still building all our composite stuff here. Only soft goods now overseas.
Boatbuilders quandry.
At first one starts off designing and building quality stuff. The stuff takes off and now demand far exceeds ones ability to keep up. The dream of every builder is to clone themselves since no one else can do things as well and with love and dedication. Not to mention as fast. Hire some workers only to find you take yourself out of the loop to follow them around to make sure they do not screw up the molds and then simply clean up after them all day. Parts get done but not to your personal satisfaction, you pay them your profit. You let them go out of frustration. Now running lean and mean with maybe a couple quality guys whose hearts are in it you begin to get ahead. Then they quit.
Years go by and your fitness melts as you stay in the shop longer, dedicated to your craft and business, slowly killing yourself in a possibly unhealthy environment.
Now comes the opportunity to have your actual parts done at a very high level AND to finally maybe have some inventory ready to sell instead of sheepishly telling customers it will be 6- 8 weeks before you can start on their boat. This plus some fresh air and time with family is looking pretty good ...... Now you can finally get back to all those design ideas that have been swirling around in your head with inspired vigor and alacrity.
Let the top designers and builders out of their caves and watch the sport evolve.
Problem is, and it is probably the hardest one for any builder .... you have to let go and trust someone else to do things ( with your name on them ) right, like you would.
Hoping things work out and no reputations are distroyed or created.
Aloha, yep.
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