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Nickname:
Manny_A
Posts: 16613
Member Since: 7/27/00
Posted: 10/5/2009 10:29am
Views: 627
Replies: 2
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Base Running Requirement
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Don't have my ASA references with me. Did a 12U rec fall ball doubleheader this weekend. They have a five-runs-per-inning house rule. At one point in one of the games, the offense had the bases loaded with two outs, and had already scored four runs. The batter walked to force in the fifth run and end the inning.
R2 advanced to within ten feet or so of third base, stopped, then headed for her dugout on the first-base side. Nobody said anything.
Is this a violation in ASA that can be appealed? Obviously this would only happen on a game-winning walk with loaded bases, but could be extended to inning-ending situations under scoring limits.
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Nickname:
AtlUmpSteve
Posts: 2871
Member Since: 2/08/00
Posted: 10/5/2009 11:51am
Views: 622
Replies: 1
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Re: Base Running Requirement
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Awarded bases must be touched. Bases resulting from being forced by an awarded base must be touched.
As soon as the runner left the field of play (since no basepath violation could be considered; not in jeopardy, so cannot be avoiding a tag), the defense could have appealed the missed base. And it could happen at any point in the game when a base is missed, regardless if a game-winning situation or not.
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Nickname:
Manny_A
Posts: 16613
Member Since: 7/27/00
Posted: 10/6/2009 5:16am
Views: 594
Replies: 1
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Re: Base Running Requirement
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As soon as the runner left the field of play (since no basepath violation could be considered; not in jeopardy, so cannot be avoiding a tag), the defense could have appealed the missed base.
Really? Wouldn't abandonment be appropriate here? 8-7-U doesn't require an appeal. Wouldn't it be appropriate for the umpire to call the runner out and negate the run (since she never advanced to her forced-to base)?
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Nickname:
AtlUmpSteve
Posts: 2871
Member Since: 2/08/00
Posted: 10/6/2009 6:46am
Views: 589
Replies: 0
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Re: Base Running Requirement
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Manny, you raise a valid point, and I may not be speaking for the mainstream or an official interpretation, but here goes.
I have often thought that many umpires (and it could be my imagination, but it seems more prevalent with baseball trained umpires, perhaps because softball requires actually leaving the field of play, while baseball apparently does not) seem over intent on calling baserunning mistakes "abandonment". I looked at dictionary definitions, and discovered there are two varying uses of the verb "abandon" (NOTE: the noun abandonment doesn't exist in the ASA rule book, just the verb), and that may be the source of a differing opinion.
To me, when the ASA rulebook calls a runner out "when a runner abandons a base and enters a team area or leaves the field of play" (ASA 8-7.U), I use the meaning to leave something you have attained; you touched the base, and then you walked away. To abandon a ship, you were in it and left, to abandon an item, you possessed it, then gave it up.
I don't use the meaning that they quit their effort to attain before attaining it, because I would expect different wording like "abandon the effort" or "abandon advancing", or (see next paragraph). That is a different issue, a different (at least in my mind) running violation, a runner not touching a base required to touch is an appeal for missing a base.
Further to my position, I note the other rule sometimes referred to as "abandonment" doesn't even use the word "abandon". ASA 8-2.D calls a batter-runner out "When a batter runner fails to advance to first base and enters ......". Now that's worded differently, and that is clear that it is failing to advance, not attaining and then leaving. I believe that wording would be used if that was the intent of 8-7.U.
But I could be wrong. And have never had this conversation with ASA higher-ups. Maybe I should have.
[ Modified 10/6/2009 6:53am by AtlUmpSteve ]
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Nickname:
IRISHMAFIA
Posts: 4266
Member Since: 1/09/01
Posted: 10/6/2009 7:20am
Views: 598
Replies: 1
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Re: Base Running Requirement
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Not to avoid the discussion, but in the OP the local rules only allow so many runs per inning and clearly states the inning ended. To me, that means once that run scored, the inning is over, end of story. This is a local rule that is at odds with standard softball rules, so it really isn't fair(?) to try an apply both sets.
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Nickname:
Manny_A
Posts: 16613
Member Since: 7/27/00
Posted: 10/6/2009 12:34pm
Views: 526
Replies: 0
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Re: Base Running Requirement
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The local rule is really no different than what would happen when the home team scores the game-winning run on a two-out, bases-loaded walk in the bottom of the final inning. Does the run score when R1 touches home, or is there still the requirement for all other runners, including the BR, to touch their next bases?
FWIW, here's what the "dark side" says under Official Baseball Rule 4.09(b):
When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base.
I was just wondering if there was a similar rule in ASA. Apparently there is not.
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