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Division III softball What can they offer?
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  Nickname: softballmom7__1
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Posted: 11/21/2006 12:05pm
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  Question  Division III softball What can they offer?  
My daughter is in the middle of this hell we call recruiting. She had no interest in going D-1 and had always felt she was best suited for a D-2, or NAIA because her major is very strenuous. She didn't want softball to be her whole college experience but, had committed so much to it that she wanted to continue at the college level. We've been approached by a excellent D-3 but, we don't understand what all they can do for her? Does anyone have any knowledge of D-3. Thanks for any help you can give.

   
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  Nickname: FiveFrameSwing
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Posted: 11/21/2006 12:29pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
D3 schools can't offer athletic scholarships, but they can offer academic scholarships.

The travel associated with a D1 program is significant, whereas for many D3 programs it can be minor. The impact with grades is much greater for D1 softball athletes.

There's something to be said for playing D3 ... it will impact the grades much less but at the same time don't expect a softball scholarship.

   
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  Nickname: jrjrjr
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Posted: 11/21/2006 1:51pm
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  Happy  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
What about D-2 schools can they offer full rides?

   
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  Nickname: Bart_Vader

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Posted: 11/21/2006 1:55pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
"What about D-2 schools can they offer full rides?"

i've been told that d-2 can offer tuition but not housing.

   
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  Nickname: DeereDad
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Posted: 11/21/2006 3:58pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
DII can offer full rides. They are restricted to 7 scholarships, vs. 12 for a D1 school. What then occurs is the coach will split the 7 scholarships to try and give her impact players some money. Of course the coach may be limited to not being fully funded, so they may have limitations and not even have 7 scholarships to give. The school my daughter plays at is a small D1, 2500 students. The max they offer is full tuition. Given that it's a small private college, the tuition costs amount to about 75% of her total cost to go there, and is a significant amount of money.

   
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  Nickname: golfbum
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Posted: 11/21/2006 4:12pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
Very well stated.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that not all DII Colleges give Athletic Scholarships. Some choose to play DII but have a non-scholarship policy. Don't know if that's the case with DI.

My understanding is that UC San Diego is an example. They used to play DIII moved to DII but decided to stick with a purely Academic Scholarship Program.

[ Modified 11/21/2006 4:15pm by golfbum ]

   
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  Nickname: pitchingdr_101
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Posted: 11/21/2006 4:20pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
UCSD does not provide any money either athletic or academic. I understand that may possibly change because NCAA will not grant a waiver. The money amount is so minimal it is not worth discussing.

[ Modified 11/21/2006 4:23pm by pitchingdr_101 ]

   
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  Nickname: pitchingdr_101
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Posted: 11/21/2006 4:26pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
For PSA's it does not provide any type of money.

   
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  Nickname: MIHH
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Posted: 11/23/2006 6:37pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
D1 scholarships are NOT semester to semester..they are reviewed on an annual basis. Your performance is NOT suppose to be a factor on weither you keep it or not. A coach might find a creative way to get rid of you if u only hit .170 by making things harder for you but TRULY they cant touch it unless you had academic or disciplinary issues.Dl schools have up to 12 full rides but a lot of them dont.Some have only 4. Dll has up to 7 scholarships and some like UC San Diego have zero. Dlll have none and are very academic friendly and dont put the burden on you like D1 and Dll schools do. NAIA do have scholarships, play competitive schedules but schools are a lot smaller-some kids like that atmosphere. Now , anybody have any questions regarding this stuff and i will tell you the facts.

   
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  Nickname: CoachZee__1
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Posted: 11/21/2006 5:48pm
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  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
If anyone is looking for information on colleges, which schools are D-I,II o III, the NCAA recruiting guide and other information, I have a few links on our team's site under "College Info"

Hope it helps.

  • Lady Express Red

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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/21/2006 6:55pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Some good information already. DD got modest D1 and D2 offers but chose D3 for academic reasons. There are two ways to use athletics. You can use it to help pay for college and or you can use it to get into a school you might not otherwise be able to get into. At the end, it's all about the education. The kids from the school DD attended and the school where she now coaches generally end up getting things like their first choice of medical school etc. In terms of financial help, academic money is better than athletic money since it can't be taken away if you keep your grades up. Pick a school where she would want to go even if something happened and she could never play again. One thing I've learned is, sticker price means nothing. Depending on your financial situation and your DD's grades and test scores, you might find it cheaper to go to a top academic private institution than a state university. You don't know till you hear their offer.

    Factor in the quality of academics, cost, how much she would enjoy the softball experience and then pick. Whether or not the financial aid is called athletic, academic or need based should not figure into the decision at all.

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/21/2006 7:06pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    There you have it.

    List the schools that fit academically, eliminate the ones she wouldn't play for on a bet, get financial offers from those that are left, eliminate those you then can't afford, and then let her pick.

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/21/2006 7:08pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Oh and if she has good grades and test scores and decides a small private D3 is exactly what she's looking for, call me quick. ;)

       
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      Nickname: CoachZee__1
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    Posted: 11/21/2006 7:07pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    "Factor in the quality of academics, cost, how much she would enjoy the softball experience and then pick. Whether or not the financial aid is called athletic, academic or need based should not figure into the decision at all. "

    That is some of the best advice I've read on college selection. Don't get hung up on the athletic scholarship..who cares what its called a scholarship is a scholarship.

    I've spent tons of $$$ on hitting lessons, dvds, pitching lessons, etc. We are currently spending $$$ on SAT prep courses and private tutors.

    I've talked to a couple of college coaches and they told me the academics a key. If they have a choice between an average student or an A student, they choose the A student.


       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/21/2006 7:15pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Absolutely. They want kids who can get past admissions and then last four years academically. Many/most schools don't even bother looking at a kid who doesn't have a certain level of academics. This varies by school of course. By the way, in your team guides indicate whether the SAT score is based on the new scale or the old.

       
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      Nickname: CoachZee__1
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 4:49am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    There was a lot of criticism a few years ago, I think mostly over football, on how the players didn't even graduate or even had people going to class for them.

    Colleges pride themselves on graduation rates and the academic success of their students.

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 5:55am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Yes, but aside from that, it's a competitive issue. If a coach starts developing a freshman and then loses her after two years, he/she can't replace her easily. They might or might not be able to go get a JC transfer and a freshman is unlikely to be able to step in and contribute at the level of a junior so now there's a hole in the chain and the team has too many young players the next year and so on. They want a kid who can stay there and give them four years with no eligibility questions. Coaches need less problems to worry about, not more. But yes, it's an issue with the administration too. If grades and graduation don't look good, there WILL be a meeting with the AD.

       
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      Nickname: softballmom7__1
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 7:48am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Thanks for all the help. You have all had wonderful comments. I've also found the D-3 coaches to be the most up front and honest about their needs and wants. They also come straight out and tell you if they want you no game playing. I think she is leaning towards the D-3, environment, community, education, and softball. She does have good grades and scores and will get something academic for sure. I was just wondering if they can also add something like books, meals, or loan package?

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 9:13am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Not athletically but as I said, don't worry about what the money is called and don't worry about the sticker price. Ignore the money question till you get the offers. Then you may have to do some culling. Is she looking for something local or...?

       
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      Nickname: Coach_Joe
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 7:41am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    I have 2(twins)daughters who are in their 2nd year of college at different schools.
    Both are D3.
    Each chose their school for academic reasons first, followed by the flexibility of the coaches to let them pursue their music and research interests.

    I now have a music Ed. major who performs in multiple music venues during the fall and winter and will start at 1B for a perennial conference champion (batted .389 in conference last season and finished with a 3.8 GPA). I also have a 3.6 GPA Chem. major who is now a research assistant in the fall and winter and should return as starting catcher in the spring for yet another league champion.

    My point is that D3 can offer so much more than getting a job playing softball. My DD's experience has them living a full academic, social, and athletic life without the pressures of D1 or D2.

    The offer of scholarship $$, for us, became less important than the prospect of a quality education. Sure, it's a little more painful in the wallet, but as parents, we will simply do whatever we have to do. Even if it means driving the old Chevy a few more years and putting off that vacation yet again.

    For what it's worth, one DD could have easily played D2. She searched high and low for a D2 school that would allow her to major in music and play softball. She was told over and over again, that this would not be possible. Even had me drive 400 miles to keep an appointment with a music director and softball coach for a great D2 school South of Philly. The music director loved her audition, but told her there would be no time for softball. She then cancelled the meeting with the coach, and had a great Philly cheese steak on the way home.

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 9:18am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    "Good story. I personnaly think playing softball in college is way over rated."

    It IS a good story. Very good. Gives a good perspective to those going through this for the first time. As far as softball in college, I think playing a sport in college adds a lot to the whole experience. I wouldn't have missed it.


       
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      Nickname: FiveFrameSwing
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    Posted: 11/23/2006 9:06am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    > Good story. I personnaly think playing softball in college is way over rated.

    Please don't tell me that this great sport comes to an abrupt end after college.

    Why don't you just tell us that there isn't a Santa Claus and totally smash our dreams.

    You make it sound like school should be more about obtaining an education.

    Hmm ... you have a point. Virtually every commercial during the WCWS stressed that point. A large percentage of student athletes turn pro in something other than sports.

       
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      Nickname: Bart_Vader

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    Posted: 11/22/2006 9:22am
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      Tongue  Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    "She then cancelled the meeting with the coach, and had a great Philly cheese steak on the way home"

    darn you coach joe. i'm hungry now.

       
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      Nickname: Coach_Joe
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 9:58am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    It was Very good!

    It was also my first experience with having cheez-wiz on the steak. I'm told that this is the "real" deal in Philly.

    I'm going to lunch!

       
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      Nickname: SoCalParent
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 1:19pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Coach Joe said: "he offer of scholarship $$, for us, became less important than the prospect of a quality education."

    Since I went to UCLA and they are ranked third academically by US News and World report for public universities right behind Cal and Virginia, I'll stand up and say that I got a quality education at a D1 school. The division at which a school participates athletically has absolutely, positively NOTHING to do with the quality of education. Certainly you didn't mean to imply that, did you?


    Coach Jo added: "Sure, it's a little more painful in the wallet, but as parents, we will simply do whatever we have to do."

    I don't think the division has anything to do with cost.   A "full ride" at the D1 school my daughter attends would be around $44,000 per year. Since she doesn't get a full ride that means I have "pain in the wallet" also. But, the good news is that it's less pain than I'd have if she went to a public university in California without any scholarship.

       
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      Nickname: Coach_Joe
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    Posted: 11/25/2006 5:06am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    SCP,
    Not at all! Neither of my DD's were D1 material. But D2 was a very real option. The main difference was that they considered softball only a small part of their overall college goals and did not want to be in a place where softball related activities lasted the entire academic year.

    Both of my DD's had partial offers at a D2 school in NY and one in PA. But the 7.5 hour drive from home soured them on those prospects. They also were very clear that performing music and chemical research would not be possible with the D2 schools if softball were in the mix. In both schools, softball was truly a "year 'round" commitment.

    So they simply chose schools that gave them the flexibility they sought. Those choices cost me more than the D2 schools would have had they decided that softball was more important.

    They also could have attended a local D2 school, and commuted from home. That would have been the lowest cost of all. But not realistic if they were to have a complete college experience.


       
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      Nickname: Seabiscuit_
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    Posted: 11/25/2006 10:12am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Coach Joe,

    I'd like to comment on your statement that "Neither of my DD's were D1 material."

    My DD plays at a D1 school. It's a mid-major and they have a history of playing pretty decent softball. Last year she was a freshman and they played a lot of other mid-major and lower level D1 schools. One of the things that amazed me was that there are a lot of poor players playing in D1 ball. Remember, there are over 265 D1 softball teams. That leaves a lot of room for mediocre. I think there's a home for most travel ball players somewhere in D1.

    My DD played with players in travel ball that could smoke a lot of the D1 players I've seen. I'm not talking UCLA or Arizona, those are the cream of the crop but there are many D1 schools that she played last year that I'd never even heard of before. Some of those teams are just plain terrible. They need help bad. My daughter's former travel ball teammates settled for D2 or NAIA schools when, had they done some research and were willing to move, could have easily found a D1 school on which to play.

    My message to parents: Don't give up on your daughters, keep searching.

    [ Modified 11/25/2006 10:14am by Seabiscuit_ ]

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/25/2006 2:41pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    I too have seen some poor D1 teams but rather than focus on the digit after the D, I'd suggest focusing on the school that best fits and challenges your DD academically where they also happen to have a softball program she would enjoy.

       
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      Nickname: Seabiscuit_
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    Posted: 11/25/2006 4:21pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Coach TG,

    I absolutely agree with you that education comes first. However, some of the "not so good" softball teams I saw were Ivy league teams. If your DD is really strong academically then what could be better than going to an Ivy league school, playing D1 softball and getting a great education.

    However, I realize that not all kids can thrive in a program that is played all academic year. If that's the case then certainly there's nothing wrong with D3 where they limit the practice time.

       
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      Nickname: Coach_Joe
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    Posted: 11/26/2006 6:42pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    There's no doubt that they could have found a D1 or D2 school where they could have played.(I happen to agree that a number of D1 & 2 programs are not all that competitive) But ALL the D1 and D2 schools they looked at worked out ALL year long. That's perfect for some, but not my 2.

    A I've said before, they just didn't want to be athlete/students. They wanted to be student/athletes.

    As my generation used to say, "different strokes for different folks"

       
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      Nickname: SoCalParent
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 7:54am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Here's one thing I didn't see mentioned above. Many DIII schools treate athletics differently than DII or DI. For example, the DIII school near my house is in a league where softball team is not permitted any organized practice or gathering before January 1st.   This allows the student to concentrate on academics for the fall semester. Or, if they prefer, they can be in an other sport for the fall.

    My DD plays D1 and they have practice 20 hours per week in the fall. Add weight room time to that and we're talking 30 hours of non-class or study time.   It's very hard to keep up with. That's like having a full time job while carrying 18 units.

       
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      Nickname: MarkH
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 9:16am
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    NCAA rules govern that just as you describe.

       
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      Nickname: softballmom7__1
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 12:43pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    My daughter has had offers D-2 and NAIA. This D-3 is about 5 hours away but, the academics are awesome. Also on her visit they were so very nice and welcoming introducing her to professors, team mates, and athletic trainers. She was also able to meet just regular kids who don't play sports but, just attend the school and still loved it. She still has two more visits set up so I guess I was just trying to see what we should expect. Thank you everyone!

       
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      Nickname: DunninLA
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 2:56pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Nice thread. After reading this this am, I found a list of DIII schools in Socal. Some very impressive private schools like the Claremont/Pomona schools, Occidental, Whittier, etc. that traditionallly emphasize individualized instruction over athletics.

    Its good to hear these types of schools might chip in academic money for softball players.

       
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      Nickname: Seabiscuit_
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 3:20pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    Another group of schools that are always considered HIGH academic schools are the Catholic Jesuit schools. These schools place academics above all else. On top of that they are NOT religious schools per se. Only two theology classes required for all four years. And, those do not have to be related to Catholicism.

    These schools are well known worldwide and have a better prestige factor than the Occidentals and Clairmonts of the world.

    Two exist in So Cal: University of San Diego and Loyola Marymount. Both are D1 with strong emphasis of academics over athletics. Other familiar schools are Santa Clara, St. Mary's, Gonzaga (sorry, no softball), USF (no softball) and many more throughout the country. Almost all of them are D1.

    So, if your daughter is already a strong academic talent and she's got D1 softball talent, there's no reason to suppress either one of those talents.

       
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      Nickname: JustAMom4

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    Posted: 11/22/2006 5:12pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    If you are referring to the University of South Florida, they do have softball.

       
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      Nickname: Seabiscuit_
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    Posted: 11/22/2006 5:43pm
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      Re: Division III softball What can they offer?  
    No, USF is the University of San Francisco (NCAA champiions with Bill Russel in basketball, remember?). I don't think South Florida is a Jesuit school, is it?

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