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Who's call?
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  Nickname: trexonu
Posts: 425
Member Since: 2/22/09

Posted: 10/29/2010 4:02am
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Replies: 1
  Who's call?  
Could one of the experienced in the group review the process of watching the catch of a fly ball and tag ups in a 2 man crew. Please give various sits, like R2 and R3, 1 out and fly ball to L-C-R fields.

Thanks in advance.

   
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  Nickname: Mason_Dixon_Blue
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Member Since: 7/27/00

Posted: 10/29/2010 6:18am
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  Re: Who's call?  
You didn't say what size field. It definitely matters.

60' Diamond
The plate umpire has all fly balls to the outfield. With an experienced crew, the base umpire could go out on a trouble ball down the line. But as a general rule of thumb, the plate umpire has all fly balls to the outfield.

The base umpire watches all touches and tags at first and second base. The plate umpire watches all touches and tags at third base, and all touches at home plate.

90' Diamond
The 90' diamond is worked a little differently. The base umpire has the fly balls from the left fielder to the right fielder. The plate umpire has all fly balls from the left fielder to the out of play boundary on the left side, and from the right fielder to the out of play boundary to the right side.

You form an imaginary "V" from the left fielder, to the pitcher's mound, to the right fielder. The base umpire has all fly balls inside the "V". The plate umpire has all fly balls outside of the "V".

Touches and tags are handled the same on a 90' diamond as they are on a 60'.

   
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  Nickname: papablued62
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Member Since: 2/27/08

Posted: 10/29/2010 9:20am
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  Re: Who's call?  
To expand on MDB's post....

On either 60' or 90' field, with no runners on, U1 from A has the option to go out on trouble balls. His coverage area would be F8 going straight in/back to the right field line. PU would then have BR responsibility around the bases.

If, however, U1 chooses to come inside, then PU has the outfield catch.

John

[ Modified 10/29/2010 9:22am by papablued62 ]

   
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  Nickname: trexonu
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Member Since: 2/22/09

Posted: 10/29/2010 11:18am
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  Re: Who's call?  
I appreciate both responses, but I was hoping to hear BU situational material, IE, when R2 and R3 with a fly to the left field corner, where do you position yourself to observ the catch and tag at 2B. The biggest issue actually is on the 60' field.

   
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  Nickname: John in Atl
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Posted: 10/29/2010 11:48am
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  Re: Who's call?  
On the 60' you may not always be able to see the catch and the tag because you may be moving inside, esp. if it is a flyball to right field when you are in B or to left when you are in C. That is why it is so important for PU to communicate, "That's a catch." Or "the balls down..."

   
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  Nickname: Mason_Dixon_Blue
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Posted: 10/30/2010 4:33am
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Replies: 1
  Re: Who's call?  
I was hoping to hear BU situational material, IE, when R2 and R3 with a fly to the left field corner, where do you position yourself to observ the catch and tag at 2B.
Step up into the working area.
Back up to widen your field of view.
Observe the "touch" of the ball and the runner leaving the base.

The biggest issue actually is on the 60' field.
You're probably not going to get inside quick enough to see the catch.
But then again, on the 60' diamond, they're probably not going to catch it.
So it's usually a moot point.



   
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  Nickname: trexonu
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Posted: 10/30/2010 7:48am
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  Re: Who's call?  
My point exactly. So the mechanic on a fly to left while in C is to move to the working area, observe R2 and WAIT for the PU call of catch, no catch until you then can actually see the catch, no catch. My only problem is that there will inevitably be a delay between the first touch of the fly ball by fielder and the announcement of catch, no catch. How do you reconcile the making of a call of leaving early by R2 when you didn't actually see the first touch of the catch, no catch?

   
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  Nickname: TheMouth__1
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:07am
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  Re: Who's call?  
Trexinou......you cant, thats why I dont like this procedure. I would rather have BU go out and determine catch , no catch and the HBU watch the runners for legal tag ups.   TM

   
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  Nickname: HugoTafurst

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Posted: 10/31/2010 8:36am
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  Re: Who's call?  
and who has the bang bang play on the BR going into 2nd?
Or with R2 and R3, who has the throw back to third after the throw to the plate is cut off??



   
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  Nickname: trexonu
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Posted: 10/31/2010 1:57pm
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  Re: Who's call?  
Hugo, you jumped ahead on me.
On the 60', when in B or C in a 2 man crew, any fly to either left or right fields cause a problem for the BU on observing the catch and possible advance after tag up. I have found that if you are in a deep B or C and a fast falling fly to the left or right causes the BU to run into the working area then pick up the fly ball then observe the catch or not, and vector the BRs. I don't run a 4.5 40. I need suggestions on getting to correct position, or give up the tag up all together and let PU, who has the best angle to see tag ups, make the appeal call.

   
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  Nickname: TheMouth__1
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Posted: 10/31/2010 5:32pm
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  Happy  Re: Who's call?  
Hugo how far do u think the BU has to go out? He still should be able to recover to make any such calls you mentioned. He still has the best positional judgement to make on the catch, no catch?   TM

[ Modified 10/31/2010 5:34pm by TheMouth__1 ]

   
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  Nickname: HugoTafurst

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Posted: 11/1/2010 7:19am
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  Re: Who's call?  
Although I am no longer current on LL 60' man mechanics, I seem to remember that the teaching was PU has all fly balls. Even so, the teaching I remember was if you go out, you stay out.

The only exception which I have been taught is a fastpitch softball mechanic which on rare occassions has a B or C ump going out (but even then, it's "stay out").

There is also the pre-gamed "take a peak and assist" technique that is sometimes pregamed, but the catch no catch is still PU's call and the trailing tag up still BU.

Is there some place I can read up on the mechanic you are referring to?

   
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  Nickname: trexonu
Posts: 425
Member Since: 2/22/09

Posted: 11/1/2010 10:01am
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  Re: Who's call?  
Hugo, I don't know where it may be.
My personal solution to R2 and R3 with me in deep C, is to cheat towards 2B, expecting a fly ball to left. I do NOT run into working area, but run towards 2B, then turn and observe catch and check runner at 2B. To run into working area with responsiblity to check R2 tag up is a waste of time and will probably cause me to miss the catch.
Need opinions.

   
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  Nickname: HugoTafurst

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Posted: 11/1/2010 12:16pm
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  Re: Who's call?  
Maybe one of the differences is, I'm not sure what "deep C" would be.
When I'm working 2 man (and once agin, I get my 60' 2 man guidance from SUIP) my B or C position aims to be as close to 6-10' from the baseLINE. Usually a step or so off the left or right shoulder of the fielder. If I have a fielder who plays deep, I'll cheat over towards the base so that I'm still in that 6 - 10' foot range.
I don't recall having a problem getting a glimpse of the touch. - I'll admit I can't always line up an R1 and an R2, but I'm comfortable getting my shot of the touch and turning my head to pick up R1 an/or R2 if necessary.
I may not get it exact, but I usually have enough information to make the appeal decision.

PS. (as relates to different posts - if a manager comes out and convinces me I didn't have all the information I needed, I'll have no problem going to my partner.... If he can add something, great.... If not, they got the best call they can get with 2 man...

[ Modified 11/1/2010 12:19pm by HugoTafurst ]

   
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  Nickname: Manny_A

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Posted: 11/1/2010 1:36pm
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  Re: Who's call?  
My personal solution to R2 and R3 with me in deep C, is to cheat towards 2B, expecting a fly ball to left.

Good luck making the call on a pickoff throw to third base from the catcher. Chances are that's going to happen more often than a fly ball to deep left.

You don't need to run a 4.5 40 to get into position to watch both F9 touch the ball and then gauge R2's position on the base. Go straight in a few steps and then turn around after you've cleared F6. You can then stop, watch for the F9 touch, and then glance over at R2. You might still be on the infield dirt or just on the edge of the grass when that happens. Then, you can continue to move in further into the grass, and allow the play to take you where you need to go.

Besides, why would you go to "Deep C" with R2 and R3? Chances are, the infielders are going to be playing way in to prevent the run. You could stand in the dirt just beyond the base line from second to third. All you need is enough distance from home to peripherally see R2 or R3 leave base early. If you stand too far into the outfield grass, you'll have a heckuva time making a call at first base, and you WILL give yourself too many steps to get in and watch the tag-up.

BTW, just because the PU is responsible for the catch/no catch, that doesn't mean the BU pays no attention to the play in the outfield and waits to hear the PU's verbal call. The BU should also watch the catch, then glance at the runners.

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