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Hidden Ball Trick
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  Nickname: 44Dodgers
Posts: 236
Member Since: 5/11/09

Posted: 10/25/2010 9:39pm
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  Hidden Ball Trick  
What rule number governs when a Pitcher approaching the mound must have the ball in play in his glove?

Thanks in advance.

   
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  Nickname: bluezebra
Posts: 7264
Member Since: 5/26/00

Posted: 10/25/2010 11:00pm
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Replies: 1
  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
There is none as far as "approaching the mound" is concerned. If the ball is live, and he strides the pitcher's plate without the ball, it's a balk. If the ball is dead, nothing can happen.

Bob

   
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  Nickname: Rich_Ives

Posts: 11793
Member Since: 7/27/00

Posted: 10/26/2010 7:40am
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  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
Did you mean straddle?



   
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  Nickname: bluezebra
Posts: 7264
Member Since: 5/26/00

Posted: 10/26/2010 11:35am
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  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
"Did you mean straddle?"

Thank you. It was late, and my vocabulary has been going down hill faster than my health.

Bob





   
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  Nickname: Frank_B
Posts: 7514
Member Since: 12/16/02

Posted: 10/27/2010 6:28am
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  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
Bob:

You ARE slipping. Welcome to the club.
Check your gun at the door.

8.O5(i) reads "astride" not "straddle."
Rich (himself) uses "astride" in a later post below.

But either word basically meaning the same.
So your vocabulary is intact with your use of the word "astride." supported by the wording in 8.05(i)

Frank!

[ Modified 10/27/2010 6:51am by Frank_B ]

   
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  Nickname: cookie__22
Posts: 199
Member Since: 4/20/03

Posted: 10/26/2010 1:29am
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  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
If it's a game played under high school rules (FED), then F1 should not be without the ball and within 5 feet of the rubber during the hidden ball trick (of course, while the ball is live).
Fed 6-2-5

   
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  Nickname: HugoTafurst

Posts: 5229
Member Since: 4/23/00

Posted: 10/26/2010 5:04am
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  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
MLB Official Rules:   8.05 (i)

The rule is different for different rules organizations NCAA, NFHS

  • MLB Official Rules

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      Nickname: Rich_Ives

    Posts: 11793
    Member Since: 7/27/00

    Posted: 10/26/2010 7:54am
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      Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
    OBR - can't be on or astride the rubber.

    FED: can't be within about 5 feet of the rubber

    NCAA: can't be on the dirt.

       
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      Nickname: DawgDays
    Posts: 4786
    Member Since: 1/17/01

    Posted: 10/26/2010 9:02am
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      Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
    One more thing you need to be aware of:

    If time was called prior to the hidden ball trick, none of these rules apply. The ball cannot be put into play if F1 doesn't have the ball. If the runner is tagged, there is no out. There is no balk. It's a big nothing. I like to say it this way, "It is IMPOSSIBLE to successfully execute the hidden ball trick if time has been called."

       
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      Nickname: TheMouth__1
    Posts: 524
    Member Since: 8/20/02

    Posted: 10/26/2010 7:29pm
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      Happy  Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
    I think a few more variation on this rule would be of benefit to everyone ??????   TM

       
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      Nickname: Jim__767
    Posts: 367
    Member Since: 7/11/02

    Posted: 10/26/2010 7:56pm
    Views:   459
    Replies: 1
      Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
    "If time was called prior to the hidden ball trick, none of these rules apply. The ball cannot be put into play if F1 doesn't have the ball. If the runner is tagged, there is no out. There is no balk. It's a big nothing. I like to say it this way, "It is IMPOSSIBLE to successfully execute the hidden ball trick if time has been called."


    1. "IMPOSSIBLE to successfully execute the hidden ball trick if time has been called" -   Not impossible if you have untrained umpires as the OP might suggest. Possibility 2% off the top of my head.

    2. "The ball cannot be put into play" -
       It has been and probably will be put into play again 5% of the time (WAG).

    3. "There is no balk" - I agree but the last time this happened in my neck of the woods the ball was put in play erroneously and after the pitcher took the rubber and the PU realized that he didn't have the ball, he (PU) balked him. No complaints from anyone. I stopped canvassing and explaining the error of their ways to my umpire group after getting numerous "if he tricked me I'll balk him comments."

    4. I don't call balks when the ball is dead but I can't argue with those that do. It's a grey area and only comes into play when the rarely seen hidden ball trick is improperly attempted.



       
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      Nickname: Jim__767
    Posts: 367
    Member Since: 7/11/02

    Posted: 10/26/2010 8:04pm
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      Re: Hidden Ball Trick  
    As an aside to this OP, F1 violates the letter of the rule in all 3 codes, excepting OBR in most cases, when he pitches and stands awaiting the catcher's return throw. This is not a violation of the rule.

    [ Modified 10/26/2010 8:10pm by Jim__767 ]

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