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Nickname:
gwood__1
Posts: 42
Member Since: 4/05/04
Posted: 7/13/2009 12:02pm
Views: 326
Replies: 2
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One More DH but now with EP
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Some summer leagues are playing what they call FED but they allow not only a DH but also an EP (extra player) that can not only hit but play a defensive position without making a substitution. I know FED has the EH who cannot play a defensive position but this EP can.
Anyway, here we are with a DH and EP in the lineup. Say the DH is hitting for the pitcher. I need help to make sure I undertand the changes the coach made to see if they were legal. Everything is going fine until the coach starts making changes as follows:
Starting lineup card
Bill EP
Tom DH
Jerry F1 (not batting)
Mike sub
1. EP goes to pitch and pitcher goes to EP. Since no "substitution" was made, I have the DH following the starting pitcher and now he is DHing for the EP. The new pitcher is still batting in his original spot in the lineup. I know it's weird but is it correct?
Lineup now
Bill F1
Tom DH
Jerry EP (not batting)
Mike sub
2. Now, sub comes off the bench to replace pitcher. Straight sub, so I have new pitcher simply replaces current pitcher in lineup and DH is still DHing for the EP.
Lineup now
Mike F1
Tom DH
Jerry EP (not batting)
Bill sub
3. Now, DH comes in to pitch. Since the DH and the current EP cannot be in at the same time, the current EP is out of the game. The pitcher now becomes the EP
Lineup now
Mike EP
Tom F1
Jerry sub
Bill sub
What do you think? Again if anyone thinks LL 7.13 is complicated..fugetaboutit.
[ Modified 7/13/2009 12:04pm by gwood__1 ]
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Nickname:
Pete_Booth
Posts: 4786
Member Since: 4/24/00
Posted: 7/13/2009 1:06pm
Views: 313
Replies: 0
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Re: that's the problem with House rules
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Since this league has their own "house rule" then the REAl answer lies with them.
There is NO FED rule to reference in your OP since there is no such animal as an EP in FED.
You say if anyone thinks LL 7.13 is complicated..fugetaboutit is because a "house rule" was created.
Whenever a league makes up their OWN house rule is what complicates matters.
In summary: in order to answer legal or illegal you need to look at what this "house rule" says.
Pete Booth
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Nickname:
bobjenkins
Posts: 1725
Member Since: 5/10/00
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:48am
Views: 301
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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I don't see how Jerry (the startign F1, if I'm reading this correctly) could not be batting.
Treat the "EP" as playing the defensive position of "bench." Allow movement between the "bench" and any other position just as you'd allow F7 and F9 to switch positions (iow, you don't care about this).
Follow the rest of the rules (the DH and the player being DH'd for can't both be on defense at the same time, or both be in the "batting order" at the same time).
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Nickname:
gwood__1
Posts: 42
Member Since: 4/05/04
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:25am
Views: 299
Replies: 2
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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Pete Booth: I appreciate your comments. This whole EP thing is made up but is played by alot of summer leagues. So, I'm looking for the common way of handling it that would be most consistant with FED rules.
Bob Jenkins:
My thinking on this psuedo-FED rule book is that Jerry is being DH'd for from the start of the game and will continue to be a DEFO (def only player) until he is subbed for. Therefore, when he moves from F1 to EP (no substitution) he is still not batting. Then the final change has the DH go in defensively, so that ends the DH role and Jerry is now on the bench as a sub.
I'm thinking that is a consistant treatment with normal FED rules if the EP is thought of as just another position but the player is in the dugout rather than in fair territory.
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Nickname:
Pete_Booth
Posts: 4786
Member Since: 4/24/00
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:42am
Views: 296
Replies: 0
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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I'm thinking that is a consistant treatment with normal FED rules if the EP is thought of as just another position but the player is in the dugout rather than in fair territory.
There-in lies the problem by your phrase I'm thinking
Somebody else might "think" another way and that's why it's important that this "house rule" be explained in WRITING.
Pete Booth
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Nickname:
oldhardballer
Posts: 1047
Member Since: 9/10/01
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:08am
Views: 289
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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"Then the final change has the DH go in defensively, so that ends the DH role and Jerry is now on the bench as a sub". gwood, one correction. Once the DH is killed he is no longer eligible to re-enter the game as a sub? I believe the only thing he can do is become a special pinch runner? The EP can be re-used multiple times. Don
[ Modified 7/15/2009 6:09am by oldhardballer ]
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Nickname:
bobjenkins
Posts: 1725
Member Since: 5/10/00
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:12am
Views: 286
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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"Once the DH is killed he is no longer eligible to re-enter the game as a sub? I believe the only thing he can do is become a special pinch runner? The EP can be re-used multiple times. Don "
Not even close.
The ROLE of the DH has ended, but the PLAYER who was the DH was a starter, so he can re-enter the game.
FED does not have a "special pinch runner." If you meant "courtesy runner", then no one who has been in the game can be a CR, so that's not right either.
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Nickname:
oldhardballer
Posts: 1047
Member Since: 9/10/01
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:41am
Views: 284
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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bobjenkins: By "killed" I was indicating that the person he was DHing for has now hit or another DH has hit for the original DH. This being the case he is no longer eligible for re-entry into the game?
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Nickname:
DelawareBlue
Posts: 1216
Member Since: 7/27/00
Posted: 7/15/2009 7:08am
Views: 277
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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By "killed" I was indicating that the person he was DHing for has now hit or another DH has hit for the original DH. This being the case he is no longer eligible for re-entry into the game?
Not correct under FED rules. When using the DH, you have 10 starters and each starter, if removed, can re-enter the game one time.
If the player being DH-ed for hits, that ends the role of DH, but the original DH can re-enter the game defensively in place of the player he was DH-ing for and bat in his original spot in the order. The DH and the player he was DH-ing for (or that player's sub) cannot be in the game at the same time.
If another player bats for the DH, that new batter is a sub for the original DH. Because the original DH is considered a starter, he can re-enter in the same spot in the batting order.
[ Modified 7/15/2009 7:16am by DelawareBlue ]
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Nickname:
oldhardballer
Posts: 1047
Member Since: 9/10/01
Posted: 7/15/2009 7:19am
Views: 276
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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Ty for the clarification. God Bless FED rules lol....don
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Nickname:
Pete_Booth
Posts: 4786
Member Since: 4/24/00
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:43pm
Views: 264
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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God Bless FED rules lol....don
Nothing wrong with FED rules as long as you USE them. It's when a "house rule" is added that causes the confusion not the RULE itself.
The FED DH rule is not complicated.
NCAA DH rule on the other hand is a 'horse of a different color"
Pete Booth
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Nickname:
oldhardballer
Posts: 1047
Member Since: 9/10/01
Posted: 7/16/2009 1:06pm
Views: 262
Replies: 1
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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What "House Rule" was entered into this post Pete ??? Just curious.
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Nickname:
bobjenkins
Posts: 1725
Member Since: 5/10/00
Posted: 7/17/2009 6:52am
Views: 254
Replies: 0
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Re: One More DH but now with EP
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The "EP" or "EH" rule is NOT a FED rule.
So, it's possible that there are some nuances / local differences in that rule. In general, though, it's treated just as any other defensive poistion ("playing left out" for that inning)
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