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Nickname:
ballfan31
Posts: 77
Member Since: 3/18/07
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:00am
Views: 6224
Replies: 8
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Your child
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So many parents out there think their little boy is the best and many are not, some truely are. I see so many posts on how overinflated parents are. How do you look at your child through unbiased eyes and truley see if they are good or not? What do you look for at different ages?
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Nickname:
mllcoach
Posts: 392
Member Since: 1/27/03
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:05am
Views: 6223
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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I was in a town hall meeting with Leo Mazzoni one time. He was asked this question.
His response was that "if every player on the field is not shaving, then he is a child playing in dirt. Nothing more. Nothing less."
If every kid on the field has gone through puberty and your child still dominates the competition, then you might have something.
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Nickname:
ballfan31
Posts: 77
Member Since: 3/18/07
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:11am
Views: 6211
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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Yes, agreed, but in this day and age, you hear parents of 7/8/9/10 and up talking about how their kid is the best. How do you look through the natural bias and see if they are good or not, even at the younger ages?
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Nickname:
CranberryBlue
Posts: 5071
Member Since: 5/24/00
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:15am
Views: 6201
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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Simple - and this applies to more than just lil' baseball players.
"Believe half of what you see & none of what you hear."
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Nickname:
mark38090
Posts: 130
Member Since: 10/08/06
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:14am
Views: 6173
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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You just have to learn to accept reality, My son dominated the local leagues here at the rec dept, but I know he's not aggressive enough with the bat to do the same in high school. My wife doesn't agree, but what mom does.
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Nickname:
ballfan31
Posts: 77
Member Since: 3/18/07
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:18am
Views: 6208
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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Accept reality? That's what i'm trying to figure out, what is reality? What do you mean by dominated? what made him stand out over others?
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Nickname:
3rdStrkUROut
Posts: 12
Member Since: 3/06/07
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:41am
Views: 6177
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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You just have to learn to accept reality, My son dominated the local leagues here at the rec dept, but I know he's not aggressive enough with the bat to do the same in high school. My wife doesn't agree, but what mom does.
More than you think!
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Nickname:
kal_
Posts: 2784
Member Since: 6/06/02
Posted: 4/3/2007 7:36am
Views: 6199
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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only time will tell... time and stats.
if any kid "dominates" at a young age - great for them... but the factor time has to be considered... wait until they get to HS level and see how they are doing.
so the ultimate answer is... time.
if they show promise at a young age, and like to play the game... nurture it (but don't overdue it - make sure they're involved in other activites and other sports when they're young).
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Nickname:
UNC_Heels
Posts: 37
Member Since: 3/14/07
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:06am
Views: 6137
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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KAL said it "time"
im a parent/coach but not a daddycoach!!! my son 2 yrs ago, well how do i put it other than "sucked", so i told him he should sit a year and try something else. so with a 2 yr break and no coaches down his throat, me included, he was ready to jump back in this year & asked me to help him get ready for season. i was in shock!!! "who is this kid?"
long story short, now at tryouts hes like a HOOVER VAC in the field, bats a bit lazy but i can fix that (but still good contact), now "hes ready to roll" as a matter of fact, if jr div. doesnt want or need him, ill take him up to the sr. div. with my team :P
stir_the_stink
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Nickname:
CAHardball
Posts: 477
Member Since: 4/19/02
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:04am
Views: 6139
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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Can I look at one of my kids through unbiased eyes? Probably not; that's why it's better to let others, (and the kid's play on the field), speak for him rather than Dad.
I rarely enter the debate over “who is the best” when it comes to my kids, there always seem to be plenty of folks willing to weigh in, so I just assumed my input was unneeded. Reports of their on field exploits also have more weight when coming from others, so I usually keep the “war stories” closely held unless there is something amusing or instructive in the telling of the story. People who constsntly relate tales of their own kid's exploits remind me of the the guy in the old New Yorker cartoons with the puffed up chest, looking down his nose at someone less worthy.
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Nickname:
busman__1
Posts: 3402
Member Since: 5/17/02
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:48am
Views: 6130
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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There is something in our nature that makes us strive for perfection, some more than others. Our children are our creations, and we want them to be perfect. But remember, there was only one perfect child and he had perfect parents.
We also want to protect them. We want them to not suffer the hurts and pains we felt growing up - the strikeouts, the errors, the dropped passes, the missed steps in the dance recital, the transposing of the i and e in the spelling bee.
Plus, too often, we think that the mistakes they make are somewhat a reflection on our inability to parent. So we only see the good, or if something is so egregious, we look automatically to find an excuse for what happen (a bad hop, a bad call, the floor was slippery, the teacher is too tough, etc.). In that way, we believe it's not our parenting skills that are questioned but just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Recognizing that we 1) don't have perfect children, 2) their mistakes don't reflect negatively on our ability to parent, and 3)a mistake is an opportunity to grow and learn will heighten our ability to look at our child's accomplishments in unbiased eyes.
I just recently spent two weeks at a famous children's hospital with a two-week old granddaughter on a respirator for most of that time. Thankfully, I will spend her first Easter with her this Sunday as a healthy, striving 3 1/2 month old child. But next to us in the waiting room, for two weeks before and at least two weeks after, were the parents of a 15 year-old girl basketball player. On a Thurday, she started coughing. On Friday, she ran fever and Mom called the doctor. On Monday, she was in a coma with staph pneumonia. About six weeks later, without ever regaining consciousness, they were planning her funeral. Don't you know they would love to see her miss one more free throw or get called for walking?
Parents, enjoy your children, mistakes and all.
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Nickname:
NA_Umpires
Posts: 5097
Member Since: 1/02/04
Posted: 4/4/2007 9:17am
Views: 5982
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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Thank you.
Print it and put it up on the fridge, folks.
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Nickname:
JAG__17
Posts: 28
Member Since: 7/19/05
Posted: 4/4/2007 10:30am
Views: 5984
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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You really struck a deep nerve....thanks.
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Nickname:
theplayer11
Posts: 382
Member Since: 4/13/03
Posted: 4/3/2007 2:58pm
Views: 6087
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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As a coach, I find it mind boggling how so many parents over-estimate their kids. My son is a good player, but I tend to look at the negatives of his game and work on those..this will make him a better player. You don't get better by daddy saying how good you are all the time. Being a coach and working with the kids, I find it so simple to see everyone's strengths and weaknesses....but then I hear other people's opinions on different kids and am amazed how far off they can be.
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Nickname:
Monsterdaddy
Posts: 266
Member Since: 3/01/06
Posted: 4/3/2007 3:47pm
Views: 6074
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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You will never know how your child's sports skills will turn out when they get older.
Let them have fun. If you want to use LL as a life lesson there's plenty for them to learn that they can take with them throughout life outside of baseball. It depends on whether you the parent take advantage of this time to teach them.
They say baseball is 90% mental and I agree.
Learning self-confidence, dealing with failure, fixing their problems, having the right attitude and perspective. Heck, I think my son will come out ahead from playing LL even if he never plays again.
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Nickname:
NA_Umpires
Posts: 5097
Member Since: 1/02/04
Posted: 4/4/2007 9:20am
Views: 6035
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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You mean the 17th player on the 7th grade roster throws as well as your college player daughter ?
You meant "he doesn't throw well at all", of course. :)
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Nickname:
MyTwoSons
Posts: 1103
Member Since: 2/18/07
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:27pm
Views: 6034
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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This message board is about youth baseball this is where proud mommas & poppas can vent or brag and for the most part anonymously. Take that away and you will only see HenrysBaseballClub, Eyecandy Window Stickers, and some miraculous energy drink spam. Henry vicariously brags about all the guys he hasn't placed so he can name drop to lure the unsuspecting.
I do recount my sons' experiences of rec ball, club ball and now high school. I have served on league boards and coached rec and club ball for over 11 years. Not once in any post have I stated that either of my sons would make the pros or D-1. I have talked about how my seven year old runs with his tongue hanging out and is slower than molasses.
So don't be jealous, take a chill pill and enjoy the little ones. Stop worrying about whether or not my kid is better than yours, there is always someone better at the next field. Enjoy watching your kids play America's Greatest Sport. I do.
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Nickname:
shorellb
Posts: 181
Member Since: 12/04/06
Posted: 4/4/2007 7:06am
Views: 6008
Replies: 3
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Re: Your child
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Hi:
I struggle with this question every day. I think the best way to determine how good your kid really is would be to look at his stats versus the rest of his team. The numbers don't lie. Even at the 9 year old level you can look at his batting average and on base percentage. Time him with a stopwatch from home to 1st, from 1st to 2nd, and from 2nd to home. Look at the number of errors in the field and at his pitching stats. You may find some surprises and some opportunities for improvement.
Joe
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/4/2007 7:22am
Views: 6026
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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I think the point to not deducing our kids' skill based on their current competition is "How do we know our leagues are really that good?".
Now, if your kid is considered in the top 3 or 4 players in your league AND your league is not just a 3-team small town league AND your league is a perennial All-Star district powerhouse AND your kid shines even during the heightened All-Star competition, then maybe you've got one w/ some potential. Still no guarantee of a HS career, but at least that would, IMO, be a pretty strong indicator that he IS good RIGHT NOW.
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Nickname:
kal_
Posts: 2784
Member Since: 6/06/02
Posted: 4/4/2007 7:57am
Views: 6008
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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overall time is the answer... but for now... relative competition is an indicator.
i see alot of "really good players" in a recreation league that when faced with a higher level of competition (all-star, travel, etc), become "average" or less.
and that is only at the "local/regional" level. imagine the differences at a national or even global level.
another indicator for young kids now is size. what man-child shouldn't dominate at a 12U level? but assuming the rest of the kids catch up by say 16... how many times have you seen that once "dominating" kid become average or mediocre. the opposite can be true for the little guys - if they're good now... imagine when they "catch up" how good they'll be.
lots of factors and indicators... but as the original poster says... enjoy it!
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Nickname:
BestExpress
Posts: 818
Member Since: 8/30/03
Posted: 4/4/2007 8:26am
Views: 6033
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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And I would add thowing like a girl is only fun if a girl that cant' throw and hears it about a boy...hitting .150 is fun for nobody, anytime.
Daddyball is fun for one.
Lots of things got to happen to have fun playing baseball. If your having fun now, this is an indicator of making the next level.
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/4/2007 10:36am
Views: 6013
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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Though my son fits the mold I've described above, we're really going to get a better idea of where he stands starting in a couple weeks. He'll be playing 12U AAU and our team is in the Super Division - which means top 8-10 teams in New England.
Of course, I have no idea how they decided to put our team in this division, seeing they've never played together??? :) Either we'll get our heads handed to us or maybe our pitching will carry us? Either way, my son will be facing some of the best competition he's ever faced. Hopefully, it doesn't scare him away. :)
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Nickname:
Monsterdaddy
Posts: 266
Member Since: 3/01/06
Posted: 4/4/2007 9:14am
Views: 6006
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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I hate to say it but I agree with TG. Stats can mean little especially if the scorekeeper is generous, i.e. the groundout error that miraculously transforms into a triple.
Now that isn't to say some things can't be measured objectively. A 9 year old who can drive a ball over a fence 200 ft away or throw 50+ mph, well no doubt he has power and potential to become a great LL baseball player. But that isn't everything.
The question of being a good baseball player is subjective because a lot of factors come into play and needs to be evaluated together.
For example, right now my son's manager is driving me nuts because he is completely confused about what makes a good pitcher. His only criteria is the ability to throw strikes, arguably that's a good standard but it shouldn't be the only one. What about velocity and ability to change speeds.
These so called "good pitchers" get creamed by batters. Now this is what really irks me, he blames the defense for not making plays. FFS, fielders can only do so much when every hit is a sharp line drive/hard grounder. Our last game was a war zone but he refused to lift the pitcher because he was still throwing strikes (when we have much better pitchers on the roster). Argh!
[ Modified 4/4/2007 10:59am by Monsterdaddy ]
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Nickname:
Monsterdaddy
Posts: 266
Member Since: 3/01/06
Posted: 4/4/2007 10:57am
Views: 6016
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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Leave it to TG to nitpick it all and ignore what was written previously.
Of course, I meant a great LL baseball player, I'll edit that. As I mentioned above, no one can tell if a kid will become a great baseball player at that age.
On the converse, it is entirely possible to tell at a young age that a kid ISN'T going to be a great baseball player. ;)
[ Modified 4/4/2007 10:59am by Monsterdaddy ]
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Nickname:
MyTwoSons
Posts: 1103
Member Since: 2/18/07
Posted: 4/4/2007 3:00pm
Views: 5996
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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Batting Average doesn't tell the whole story. What about the batter that consistently reaches base because of his speed, and the scorekeeper who doesn't know better marks an error? What about the kid that consistently executes on the "hit and run" (it should really be called "run and hit") and advances the runner regardless of where the pitch was located? Those kids batting averages may dip because they are expected to hit the ball on the ground behind the runner to advance the runner(s). They are playing for the team and not for themselves. Yesterday, my son was 0 for 3 with a beautifully executed "hit and run" placing runners at 2nd & 3rd and in the last inning a sacrifice to advance a runner into scoring position (the winning score). This is high school ball. My son is now playing on both the freshman and junior varsity team along with two others. Each team has about 20 kids.
[ Modified 4/4/2007 3:04pm by MyTwoSons ]
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/5/2007 5:28am
Views: 5956
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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TG,
Are you saying that because one hitter hit a dinky GB that the infield assumed that the NEXT hitter would do the same and moved in?
I'm not sure I buy that.
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/5/2007 11:03am
Views: 5956
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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Go back and reread the message I responded to - you never SAID there were no outs! How did I/we know that there wasn't already one out and your son narrowly avoided hitting into an inning-ending double play?
I probably read your message a little too quickly and didn't read between the lines enough to realize the # of outs had to be 0 (or why else would the infield still be in after your son's out?).
Geez, always so self-assured that you know everything and the rest of us don't. Lighten up.
[ Modified 4/5/2007 11:06am by Sandman62 ]
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/5/2007 11:51am
Views: 5968
Replies: 3
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Re: Your child
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Guess I'm just another dumb coach who can't hold a candle to the omnipotent TG.
Woe is me. :P
Good thing baseball's not played on a message board, I guess? :) I do just fine on a field. Hmmm... been coaching 4 years (not counting coach pitch and t-ball) in an 8-team very competitive league. Let's see... 2 playoff championships, 2nd place reg. season 3x, a state 11YO All-Star championship, and widely-respected as usually having one of the best hitting teams in the league.
Go ahead now and tell me that I've obviously just been fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.
[ Modified 4/5/2007 12:15pm by Sandman62 ]
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/5/2007 1:15pm
Views: 5942
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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Stick your insincere, patronizing apology you know where pal!
I DO understand about hitting behind runners. Geez. But in case it's been awhile since you've coached a LL team, on 60' bases w/ no leads, it really doesn't happen - the ball gets to the second baseman or the hole before the runner.
Oh, now tell me again how useless I am because "the game means nothing until you're on the big field".
You're a real piece of work bud.
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Nickname:
MyTwoSons
Posts: 1103
Member Since: 2/18/07
Posted: 4/5/2007 1:32pm
Views: 5956
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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Instead of being abusive, perhaps you should analyze what TG is saying and either try it or look for ways to defend against it. If you ignore it you'll cry when a team spanks you with it.
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/5/2007 8:45pm
Views: 5944
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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I'm saying I understand it, and that if it were useful on a LL diamond, I'd teach it. But it's NOT. Runners can't lead off, so teaching a kid to hit to the 1b/2b hole and having him hit into an easy 4-6 force out is giving up an out for a different base runner. When I GET to coaching on the big field, I'll COACH hitting behind the runner and bunting runners over (because they DON'T move over as often by passed balls and wild pitches).
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Nickname:
MyTwoSons
Posts: 1103
Member Since: 2/18/07
Posted: 4/6/2007 12:25am
Views: 5953
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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My son was recruited to play Little League in addition to Pony one year. The entire team was fast and often ran on contact. Not a good move if the ball was in the air. Our kids ran as if there were lead offs. My son had many clean steals (meaning no dropped pitch or passed ball). Most of the players were used to running 70 feet with a lead off. So 60 feet with no lead was no problem. My son had a choice of Little League or Pony All Stars and he picked Pony.
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Nickname:
Sandman62
Posts: 1593
Member Since: 5/25/02
Posted: 4/6/2007 6:55am
Views: 5937
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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Yes, that was LAST year. My son was a repeat 11YO and the previous year, we won the State, at the same time as our 10YO team won the state and our 12YO team was state runner-up.
Smallest state or not, THAT's some darned good baseball - even if it IS the insigificant "little field".
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Nickname:
MyTwoSons
Posts: 1103
Member Since: 2/18/07
Posted: 4/5/2007 12:04pm
Views: 5951
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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I agree with TG. The corners are often big slow players. If you see the corners deep, bunt down the lines for a base hit. If the corners come in, plunk it over their heads.
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Nickname:
ctandc__1
Posts: 175
Member Since: 6/06/05
Posted: 4/4/2007 9:46am
Views: 6023
Replies: 5
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Re: Your child
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At the ages 7-12 it's always hard to predict. The things that have nothing to do with "skill":
- Puberty hits
- Other interests (girls, cars, etc)
- Other Sports
- Kids get old enough to realize Dad /Mom seem to want it worse that they do..so instead of telling them what they think, they QUIT. Usually it's called 'burnout' but it's called budding independence
So let's go to skill:
- Hand eye coordination - Again this can change, for better OR worse with age.
- THINKING on the field
- Mechanics of the FUNDAMENTALS - Throwing (not PITCHING), hitting, fielding, moving the feet etc..even the BEST natural athletes will have a HARD learning these building blocks if they don't get taught correctly until they are 13/14 and then most coaches in school programs won't TEACH IT. They just run with what they already have
- DESIRE - Can't be coaches or taught. It can be ENCOURAGED but that usually involves sometimes backing off and sometimes pushing a tad. Too much of either will backfire. Same as just about any other aspect of being a coach or a parent
-ATTITUDE - This is a big one...and it seems it's even bigger today. I've seen GREAT players told to hit the road because they were never TAUGHT to deal with failure..that's part of life AND baseball
I'll go native here.
My kid is just 10. He's pretty good size for his age, but not a monster. He's always been top 2-3 in his age in every rec league. He was drafted #2 on his 12 year old Majors team. The #1 is basically a 13 year old man child who plays 13U USSSA. Great kid. Big deal.
On his 10U USSSA team, he's always batting 4th and I don't like batting lineups. His real world stats last year would seem inflated to anyone who knows baseball.And that's me taking away some hits out of principal (it is 10 year old ball).
He's a good ballplayer and athlete. He'll be even better once his coordination / speed catches back up with his growing body. But he's 10.....
BUT..he enjoys baseball...and basketball etc etc....and I always leave the decision up to play or not to him every season. It's his ride, not mine. While I love coaching my son....like I tell him....
I can always be fishing, playing ball in my own league, hunting more, working on one of my projects etc etc....but as long as he wants to play and wants me to help him, I will....even if it's just to go watch. That's what Dad's are supposed to do.
Too many IF's to predict ANYTHING about ANYTHING when a kid is 10...or 9...or 8...or 11 or 12.
He'll have the size...ortho doc did some measurement test / and asked about other relatives...Doc said 6'2" easy more like 6'4"...I'm 6' 3"...so we'll see.
I hear parents all the time tell me "You won't have to worry about college.." ETC ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...
I now have a pat answer for 'em..
"..hey I'll just be happy if my son makes it to 18 without being a guest of the State. Anything over that is gravy.."
They usually leave me alone after that.
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Nickname:
shorellb
Posts: 181
Member Since: 12/04/06
Posted: 4/4/2007 10:10am
Views: 6006
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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Hi:
I am the one who suggested looking at the stats. I mean that you can judge if he is really better than the other kids on his team/league if his stats are better. I think that is what the original poster was wondering about.
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Nickname:
ballfan31
Posts: 77
Member Since: 3/18/07
Posted: 4/4/2007 11:05am
Views: 6018
Replies: 2
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Re: Your child
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yes, thank you, that was what my original post was about. Yes, stats don't lie and yes they are only as good as the competition, but i'm not looking to compare outside of where we are now, as it's hard to compare unless you play against them. I'm not thinking about high school level yet, just the level we are playing now which is 9U. I just hear from so many different parents about how good their kid is, and sometimes wonder if when i think the same thing, do i have blinders on, or is he good (against the current competition). I agree there are alot of factors for future playing, and that's why it's good to take one season at a time and determine at each level where to go next.
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Nickname:
MyTwoSons
Posts: 1103
Member Since: 2/18/07
Posted: 4/5/2007 1:58pm
Views: 5951
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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Yes, stats can and do lie. Some scorekeepers may not know what is an error and what is not, often scoring hits for what should be errors and vice versa. Some scorekeepers, in error, have and will score a single with 3 errors a homerun. Wrong. Here is another example: my son should have about 10 stolen bases, but the scorekeeper, which is a teammate that doesn't get a lot of playing time, doesn't know that if there is a wild pitch or a passed ball you have to look at when the runner took off. My son usually takes off on pitcher's 1st move. Look up the rule 10.8 (a); it's a stolen base. There can be bias either for or against a team or individual for various reasons. One daddy ball travel coach who played his son at shortstop commented to me there were no errors by his son when there were 2 obvious errors. I bet his kid is batting .800 in his scorebook.
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Nickname:
ballfan31
Posts: 77
Member Since: 3/18/07
Posted: 4/4/2007 11:10am
Views: 6005
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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That was exactly what i was looking for, skills to look for and work on.
Hand eye coordination
thinking on the field
mechanics of fundamentals
desire
attitude
Thank you, that all makes sense
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Nickname:
NA_Umpires
Posts: 5097
Member Since: 1/02/04
Posted: 4/5/2007 8:16am
Views: 5962
Replies: 1
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Re: Your child
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I award you 1,000 atta-boys for proper attitude.
It is indeed all about the kids.
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Nickname:
zombywoof
Posts: 3200
Member Since: 3/29/03
Posted: 4/5/2007 2:39pm
Views: 5943
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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I think the best way to determine how good your kid really is would be to look at his stats versus the rest of his team. The numbers don't lie. Even at the 9 year old level you can look at his batting average and on base percentage.
The numbers can lie unless an unbiased scorekeeper's doing the books. Numbers are constantly inflated. Especially in high school where peeps keep the book and inflate the numbers so a player has a higher average have no clue what they're doing by not knowing what to score a hit or an error.
All you have to look at from a hitter is how he handles the bat against better pitchers, making consistent hard contact and swinging at good pitches. Sure, putting a timer on a kid to measure speed is a good way to see how fast they run but if they have no baserunning savvy, that speed means jack. A slower runner with base running savvy will be more effective than the clueless jackrabbit.
[ Modified 4/5/2007 2:42pm by zombywoof ]
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Nickname:
Chalkline
Posts: 1560
Member Since: 9/09/03
Posted: 4/6/2007 10:56am
Views: 5935
Replies: 0
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Re: Your child
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The Head nurse looked up and said, leave this one alone, she could tell right away, I was Bad To The Bone, BBBBad, BBBBad to the Bone.....
[ Modified 4/6/2007 11:00am by Chalkline ]
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Out of control fans...
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